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German living in Canada since 2018. Couple of things:
- There’s no bread culture. It’s all toast, with the exception of French breads. But I saw brown colored toast sold as pumpernickel. A travesty.
- The love for bland food. I know, there was a demonization campaign against salt in the 80s or something. But you gotta get over it. Feels like you’re saving salt from the cooking to put it on the road in the winter.
- The healthcare system is a joke. “bUt It’S bEtTeR tHaN iN tHe Us.” As if that’s difficult. Only difference is your dumpster isn’t on fire, yet.
- THE ABSOLUTE TRASH THAT’S SOLD AS TOILET PAPER! Honestly my biggest pet peeve. TP here is flimsy and overpriced. >1$ for a roll of 2-ply or >2$ per roll of 3-ply, but both tear if you so much as look at them the wrong way.
Bread: you are right. It’s universally terrible. In larger cities there are European bakeries that are better.
Bland food: Yep. It’s a mix of the worst of American northwestern food with bland British food. It’s getting better though, especially in BC.
No comment on health care.
Toilet paper is this way in Canada due to so many people living with septic tanks or lagoons, I believe.
Look into bidets. There’s cheap seat addons you can buy but there are also portable bottle-like ones. I’ve got one of these: https://happypo.com/products/xl-bidet
The size of grocery stores in the US, coming from Hong Kong. Also, the massive lack of good public transit, urban walkability, and just cars cars cars everywhere.
The things you point our are lacking are the reason the grocery stores are so big. When you go to the store it’s not just a small thing you do on your way to do something else, because when you’re in a car nothing is easy. Parking and walking into the store can take a few minutes, so stopping after work every day gets annoying fast because what could have been a 5 minute stop on fklt inevitably turns into a 15-20 minute stop.
So, you make going to the store a once or twice a week thing, and you buy EVERYTHING you think you’ll want or need in that week when you go to handle that the store needs more in stock.
I spent a few years in the US, coming from Scandinavia. It took several months before I was able to navigate the whole “strike up a conversation with anyone”-thing. The issue wasn’t so much being “forced” into conversations (which I got used to fairly quickly) as it was knowing when these interactions were considered over by the other party. I’d often, unintentionally, overstay my welcome. The general vibe and attitude were also quite different.
The biggest shock was however moving back home. I’m originally from one of the larger cities in my home country, but ended up in a tiny village through a series of coincidences. Going from a multi-million US city to a tiny Scandinavian mountain village was rough. Went from a place filled with outgoing people to a place where the cashier in the local store still took me for a tourist after having lived there for a year. An almost impenetrable society. I’ve been here for a decade now, and have long since realized that I will always be “that guy from XYZ”. On the plus side, it’s nice not having to deal with people beyond my own family an coworkers. On the negative side I have almost no sense of belonging here outside of my wife’s family who are all local.
You need to join a club or take a class. That is the Norwegian way of breaking the silence. Instant connection.
Clubs are a good place to meet people for sure. :)
That whole local vs not is kind of crazy though. I know of a guy who’s been here for 40 years, huge part of the local community, everyone knows him - and everyone still referes to him as “the guy from the north”. I find it equal parts hilarious/sad-ish. I dread to think what it would feel like to be a foreigner here, and not just some guy who moved in from a city a few hours down the road. I get it though on some level, historically it’s been a very isolated community, and even now getting here (or getting away) can be difficult, practically speaking, in the winter months.
Oof. I feel this one. I spent most of my childhood in - what we consider - a small city (10k people). My school class was like 20 kids with a few different ethnic backgrounds. Then we moved to a mountain town where the elevation (in meters) was a multiple of the population count, my class (including the neighboring villages) was 4 and there was exactly one family who didn’t look like they were at least 20 generations Swiss.
My dad is a very outgoing person, passionate volunteer firemen (most towns here have their fire department on a volunteer basis), contributed to the town council, was pretty religious (BIG up there, when there was a mass during the day then all the classes from school attended) - but they literally were just happy to take his work but not give anything back. The protestant priest from the neighboring village checked in on our family (protestant) and him (catholic) more often than our “our” priest. My mom befriended another “immigrant” family who had been there for 10-20 years and basically had NO connections in town. My father made 1 good friend and 1 good acquaintance at work.
For us kids it was a lot easier. The other kids were welcoming and friendly and even the adults were somewhat accomodating to us. But I was approaching adulthood and started to experience this myself. Town tradition was that for christmas the oldest kids in primary school would dress up as the 3 magi and lead the younger ones around town to sing christmas songs. And they would also participate in the christmas mass. They were in a pickle that year as from a class of 4, half were protestant heathens. I was still expected to stand in the front of the church as ornament but when the edible paper was distributed I was rudely shoved away.
I must admit that I eventually got used to it and even started enjoying this attitude, which I also took part in, but I was quite amazed by the Finns.
For work reasons, I had to spend three months in Espoo and the interaction with my colleagues was strangely cold in social interactions. Examples:
- In the office canteen, they would sit next to you and start eating without even greeting or making conversation. I wondered why they had chosen to sit next to me.
- When they finished eating, they would get up from the table and not say goodbye.
- The scrupulous respect for personal space: in queues, crowds, etc.
- Small talk was generally non-existent. People often preferred to stay quiet rather than chat about the weather or other common topics. Even in an elevator, silence was the norm, not the exception.
- During meetings, the Finns would often speak only when they had something substantial to contribute. The silence in between wasn’t considered awkward, but a moment of thoughtfulness and respect for others’ ideas.
I ended up enjoying this way of social interaction. It seems to me that one uses less energy in social situations. There’s less stress about having to make conversation or engage in small talks.
Love you Finland.
I immigrated to Vietnam. That was ok.
Visiting north America again years later was quite a shock!
Going home after living abroad was a way bigger shock to me than living abroad was too. You suddenly see your own culture from outside.
I left home for a little over a year, here I am almost a decade later fascinated people here can’t see that things can work so much better than they currently do.
Can you explain more about this? What was shocking about it?
Ack, my long response got eaten.
I guess in North America, people I know seem to think that developing countries in Asia are these oppressive, miserable places.
While I do technically live in a slum, it’s safer and the residents are happier than any place I’ve been in Canada. The people here have so much freedom to do the things that matter! The barrier to starting a business is very close to zero, zoning and tax laws are not prohibitive either. You can do whatever you want with your home – no home owner’s association. Raise chickens on your roof, if that’s what you want to do. Anything not dangerous is OK – maybe talk to your neighbors first if it’s something unusual.
Going back to North America is something I do for family. It’s inconvenient, everything is far apart and empty, it feels dead. The food is less good. People are angry and divided about politics. There’s some low-but-everpresent degree of hostility towards people who look like foreigners, and overall it seems people have somewhat strange ideas about Asia. It’s not terrible, and there are many good things there too (it is clean and many forests!), but I feel woefully out of place.
Interacting with people from North America who visit Vietnam has always been the biggest cultural shock though. Often, they outright ask me how to commit crimes (I maintain a presence online to answer questions for confused tourists – Vietnam is not that accessible sometimes). Work permit compliance is low, also many fake university degrees and fake passports. Lots of people running MLM and crypto scams. Many drive without any valid license, and if they hit someone they flee back home. I met many selling drugs illegally (I wasn’t looking for them, either). It used to be shockingly bad. On the bright side, it drove me to integrate culturally and pay careful attention to my immigration paperwork.
So I guess I consider myself culturally Asian now, which I suppose is a reasonable outcome after 10 years. The language is still hard for me though, I still speak like a child – running a business doesn’t leave so much time to study human languages.
Nowadays, we’re getting more qualified professionals and tourists that are decent people, so things are generally way better than they were 5 or 6 years ago. Overall the things I’ve seen make me ashamed though. I don’t think any amount of progress can really wash that feeling away. I try to assist tourists online as a way to prevent myself from turning that shame into prejudice.
If you can afford it, I found that the Pimsleur technique taught me how to speak well better than anything else I tried. I’ve forgotten the Spanish I know because I didn’t keep using it, but it got me to a decent adult conversational level in about a month at half an hour a day and I was always speaking ‘adult’ sentences right from the start, both copying then making new ones.
It’s more a problem of economics. I’ve optimized my life to accomplish a single goal. There is no room for anything else. Time is the most expensive thing right now.
I had zero dollars and a company license 6 or 7 years ago, so my focus has been bootstrapping myself into land+home ownership, which is very expensive here. A home in Vietnam is much more expensive than what you’d expect considering the cost of everything else.
So I’ve spent 100% of my time studying whatever I think will make me the most money. This has typically been technology and programming languages, with some brief forays into economics, finance, law, and accounting. I studied the Vietnamese enough to deal with daily life only. I can’t really socialize in Vietnamese very well, but then again, I don’t have a social life in any language.
It’s intense, but going well. If I continue at this rate, I’ll be able to retire after a career of about 10 years (so a couple more years). Then I can learn Vietnamese. Maybe I’ll learn to paint too, or run a machine shop, or help students build their careers!
Very good luck with all of that!
Becoming a civilian again after being in the military was interesting. Simple things felt weird all the time; I kept feeling like I had to show my ID to buy groceries, stuff like that. But probably moving to the East Coast (NoVA) from Colorado in 2002 was the biggest. I was in absolute shock at the price of housing, hours of commuting every day, and most of all, how horrible the people were. Mean, rude people, angry all the time and intentionally threatening on the roads. Being there made me cry a lot in the first year.
Visited canada a few days ago.
I thought that the people would be super nice, in my experience they don’t. People working in tourism are super friendly but we felt that the people are super harsh with tourists.
We even had a group of kids saying out loud “I don’t like people with big backpacks” (And no my backpack was not touching them or on a seat) or a security officer saying that he does not work on the information department so he was not helping us.
I have family there and I got to meet some incredible people but I felt that they were super hash sometimes.
Also Canada is beautiful!
Canada is very big. Come to the east coast! Not that we don’t have assholes.
Just got back from Canada and I had the same experience. The workers were really friendly, but everyone else was kind of assholes. Felt like I was back in LA with everyone having their head up their own asses. Shocked me cause I always hear how friendly Canadians are.
And the food is super bland, but the country is gorgeous and the weather was great
Where in Canada did you visit?
Banff -> Montereal -> Toronto
Actually experiencing racism in Japan.
If you’re a white dude in a white country, you don’t have any idea what it’s like. My incident was super minor (being denied access to a restaurant) but it gave me a teeny peek into what life must be like for some people.
It was the first time that I’ve experience this kind of comments. I’m a tallish white male and I was confused as Canadian sometimes during this trip
When I first came to US, I was very shocked by how talkative Americans are, especially to strangers. Ngl, I was a bit annoyed at first. Then I realized that’s just the way they are.
I’m an American who finds this trait very annoying. People do not know when to shut up, and they tell you the most personal things!
yep, and I am too timid to ever end the conversation
so now I have to hear Larry’s entire life story, or about how Wanda’s cousin has bowel cancer
Going to sound weird but going to one of my childhood friend’s house
He had a loving family where everyone was happy and helped each other. They communicated with each other happily about things that interested them. They were unafraid to share what was on their minds and what they were passionate about. They asked each other to do things without threatening or screaming. When they did have disagreements they talked them out. They’d say, “I love you,” without a hint of pain or irony.
It was jarring. It threw me off. I went over to his place a lot (like literally almost every day for the time were friends) and it wasn’t until I had been going to his place for a few weeks did it dawn on me that I had never seen his parents argue.
And honestly one of the most eye opening experiences from when I was young about how a family is supposed to function.
I guess you could say it was culture shock because my relatives operated on a culture of fear, hatred, and a lack of love. The phrase, “You have to love me, I’m family,” was uttered entirely too many times. Violence and the threat of violence was the only motivator my relatives used.
I was friends with that guy for 3 years. I’ll never forget his parents telling me that they saw me as family. I’d say those years did more good for shaping who I am today than all the years I spent with my relatives. I look back fondly on the time I spent with them. I wish it didn’t end the way it did though.
I hope they’re all doing well.
I live in America, and I would say America. During COVID I was completely shocked on how stupid we were about masks and vaccine guidelines. I am nearly 40 now but at the time I didn’t know this country was so stupid.
When I lived in Italy it always caught me off guard how every business closed up shop after 18:00, the city looked dead past these hours. I’m used to shops and markets being open 24/7, and it was a vast contrast. But I liked it in the long run, people should have their off hours.
It’s especially noticable in cities where the storefronts close with rolling metal doors, and the windows close over with shutters. It is very apparent that the city is “closed.”
Of course these doors and shutters have very practical purposes. Just that if they’re not common in your home country, it can be jarring.
Interesting, but if all the shops close when everyone gets off work, when do people get a chance to actually visit the shops when they are free before they close?
You usually get about an hour to do your shopping, plus big supermarkets like Esselunga would still be open, you just had to make the trip. I guess there’s always a lunch break, a pizza place next to a place I used to live in only opened from 14:00 to 17:00, and there would always be a long line (because they had very good pizza)
Not me, but the first time my boyfriend traveled with my family somewhere, he could not believe that sitting quietly in a living room reading was a thing. My family didn’t feel the need to fill our day to the brim with tours or shopping or other activities. And that was shocking to him.
That’s shocking to me too. Why travel if you aren’t going to make the most of being in a different place?
So you don’t burn yourself out.
A lot of people end up miserable on vacations because they don’t give themselves time to relax and enjoy it.
Moved to Maine and literally everyone was white.
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I had a friend in school who went to South Africa for half a year and he was mugged several times. He always had like 20 Dollars of cash on him to get out of the situation. That was 15 years ago, no idea what it’s like now.
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Growing up homeschooled in a cult in the American South, escaping, and then moving to Brooklyn. Kind of a roundhouse-kick to the id, ego, and outlook on literally everything
