The Hawaii Supreme Court handed down a unanimous opinion on Wednesday declaring that its state constitution grants individuals absolutely no right to keep and bear arms outside the context of military service. Its decision rejected the U.S. Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment, refusing to interpolate SCOTUS’ shoddy historical analysis into Hawaii law. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the ruling on this week’s Slate Plus segment of Amicus; their conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
It’s an amazing case because the Hawaii Constitution has a provision that is the same as the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It literally uses the exact same words as the Second Amendment. And Justice Eddins said: Even though the provisions are the same, we will not interpret them the same way, because we think the U.S. Supreme Court clearly got it wrong in Heller when it said the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms.
The bill of rights protects rights, it doesn’t create rights. That is a pretty fundamental concept.
Right. Because rights are created by God, right?
Rights are not created, bestowed, issued, manufactured, or handed out.
They aren’t a license or a badge or something physical.
Right. Just like God.
I think the important thing is to remember how important it always is to fight for them, at any rate.
Internet atheists see any mention of God or religion as an opportunity to hijack a discussion.
When it’s literally a discussion of where rights come from and theists suggesting they come from God (while avoiding the word God and pretending they mean something else), it’s not hijacking. You’re the one trying to hijack to discussion to talk about how much you hate atheists.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
As written, the right to bear arms only applies to people who are in a well regulated militia.
The modern use of “regulated” isn’t the same as it was then.
Regulation had to do with training and equipment. The idea was that militias, as opposed to a standing (“Regular”) army, weren’t always trained and armed when they were called to arms. The idea of a “well-regulated militia” was for civilians to already have weapons and understand their use if they were needed.
So a requirement for a well-regulated militia is for civilians to have the right to own and use weapons.
Is it antiquated? Maybe. But saying that “well-regulated” militia was meant to limit access to firearms is an argument based on either ignorance or dishonesty.
Well not quite. Well regulated did also include training and they did not consider the average person to be well trained enough to qualify for the phrase.
False, George Mason quote “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials.” George Mason wrote a draft of what became the second amendment
As written, the right belongs to ‘the people’. That’s everyone. It can’t be infringed because that would interfere with their ability to form a well regulated militia, which is necessary to secure freedom.
English is hard sometimes, but not that hard if you try.
The conservatives on the supreme court are crap historians and even worse judges.
Originalism is nothing more than a mechanism for the Supreme Court to undo past precedent they don’t like. Welcome to the new lochner era.
Hopefully we end this one like we ended the last, with a wave of socialism and a tough president willing to pack the court.
Sorry Loving v Virginia, it didn’t used to be widely understood that the equal protection clause would forbid inter racial marriage bans. After all, both white and black people are forbidden from marrying other races by those laws. There, equal. That’s how it was historically understood, heck it was illegal in 16 states still at the time and widely disapproved of.
But this presumes origialism is some coherent philosophy in the first place, instead of an excuse for partisan hackery cherry picking by Heritage Foundation stooges to get the conclusion they want.
Count me in favor of packing the court, not like there’s any integrity to jeopardize. More to lose by doing nothing while they continue to rampage.
::sigh::
This is a bad ruling; Hawai’i is saying that their state laws and traditions take precedent over federal laws, the US constitution, and SCOTUS rulings. It’s intentionally trying to undermine the concept of the rule of law in order to get the result that they want. That’s not a “devastating rebuke”, it’s a toddler screaming about not getting candy in the supermarket.
This is counter to the concept of the rule of law, and should be seen as an embarrassment, not something to celebrate.
just like cannabis and other laws in states taking precedent over federal laws?
Texas is another example and abortion is a state by state issue too as is medical and vehicle insurances
driver’s licenses are a state by state thing too as is voting not a federal thing all state by state and education standards are state by state and SNAP benefits
US should have gotten things more united and settled before it was too late and shattering instead of waiting to cry and moan about it afterwards
I already responded to that. Local laws do not supersede federal marijuana laws, as you will quickly discover if you try to purchase a firearm. (And, BTW, if you are a ‘legal’ user of marijuana and buy a firearm, that’s a federal felony.)
Sure, if Alabama can ignore SCOTUS, why not?
And Texas.
And Florida
More of this.
