AIPAC gave her more than 400k this year alone.

Idk I think Biden might be spiteful enough to want to see Harris fail.

I’m arguing against the idea that electing Kamala, then expecting to be able to move her left after the election, is a viable plan. If more people didn’t tune out once January rolls around, then maybe it would be more feasible. But you and i are in agreement that a lot of people simply tune out once the election is over. Libs who protested kids in cages under Trump ignored kids in cages under Biden.

Voters have leverage now. If Kamala wants our votes, then believe me I would be thrilled to see her earn them.

I disagree with equating “I can’t vote for a president who wants to continue to help commit a genocide” as “I expect a utopia and will settle for nothing less”. I’m not going to vote for Jill Stein or whichever third party candidate, but I don’t blame people who do. I blame party leadership for their failures. If they have a better vision for the future, it is their job to convince people that they are the best for the job. Right now, Dems are choosing to gamble their own votes so they can keep helping fascists commit a genocide and what increasingly appears to be a war of expansion and conquest in Lebanon.

get mad in time for the primary

Hell yeah. I have voted in every primary I could since I hit age 18.

I cant be mad that the cou try founded on genocide and slavery is still invested in hate.

You can, and you should be. Being mad isn’t the same as being surprised.

I’m mad that come February I will hear only crickets and the giant shit sandwich we all consume every 4 years will be forgotten.

Totally agree on this point, and I don’t know why you assume that I’m one of the many who choose to spend four years at brunch before starting to care about politics again.

No but seriously, does it not make you angry that the Dems are willing to gamble votes if it means they can keep helping Israel murder children? Genocide is that important to them? These are the people who are supposed to be better than that. If that doesn’t make you angry then I don’t think I’m the one acting in bad faith. Criticize my smiley face all you want, I’m not the one gambling with the future of the country and we both have every right to be angry about that :-).

When did I say I was happy? I don’t want Trump to win any more than you do. Which is why I’m so upset that the party with the best chance to stop him is choosing to risk losing the election (and jeapordizing the rights of millions of Americans who will be harmed under a Trump administration) by continuing to support genocide. Doesn’t this make you angry?

Oh don’t get it twisted, none of these are “my tactics” and I understand that the current Dem leadership won’t budge on their support for genocide. They’ve made it clear that their tactic is “try to win a presidential election while going against their own base”. We’ll see how effective that tactic is in around two weeks :-).

I thought this was learned in 2016 but I see a lot this repeating itself.

I’m pretty sure a lot of people who helped run Hillary’s campaign are also helping to run Kamala’s. They don’t learn lol.

Of course they are. Harris might lose because of her positions on Gaza. And in spite of this, most Democrats, including Harris, refuse to budge on their “ironclad” support of Israel. Just like the Biden administration has refused to budge in the face of countless protests against their support for Israel over the past year.

I’m arguing against the whole “elect them and then pressure them into moving left” rhetoric because that has proven to be a completely ineffective tactic.

There have been countless protests in the US against the genocide of Palestinians over the last year, since Israel really kicked the genocide into high gear. What have the democrats (the party that everyone insists can be pressured by their base) done in response to this?

You probably should care, though. The DNC should absolutely care. Stein is not wrong that the Greens might stop Kamala from winning Michigan.

Maybe because that population could win Michigan for Harris.

No arguments from me. I wonder how long Biden’s ego has been an impediment to Dems. Definitely for the past month but I suspect it’s been a lot longer.

That’s great and that’s what every committed Dem voter is doing. Given that the race is more about stopping Trump than anything else, wouldn’t the best way to approach that be to back the candidate who is most likely to beat him?

If you watch the debate, it’s abundantly clear that Biden is not that candidate. Things like optics and vibes shouldn’t matter in an election, especially when the other side’s policy positions are as abhorrent as Project 2025. Unfortunately, when it comes to courting votes in battleground states, they do matter.

Yeah, sticking with the guy who is losing in all the polls and can’t speak would have been a much better option.

If your takeaway from that article is “the debate didn’t hurt Biden”, the article entitled “Biden suffers less polling damage than expected…”, then I have some doubts about your ability to recognize your own bias.

Are you speaking as a well-positioned party superdelegate, member of the DNC leadership committee, or mega-donor? Or are you some internet armchair asshole watching this trainwreck from the nosebleed seats?

Oh, I’m neither. I’m someone who is going to be forced to deal with the consequences of this shitshow however it plays out. Since I, through no choice of my own, have skin in this game, I’m as entitled to my opinion as you are. Biden should step aside, and it is the morally correct move to do so.

he’s forced

Biden isn’t forced to do anything. He wasn’t forced to adopt Trump’s immigration policies, and he sure as shit wasn’t forced to pivot from the strongest issue the Dems have to one of the weakest.

It won’t happen because Biden doesn’t want to do any of those things. The DNC would rather risk the nation crumbling into fascism than take any of those steps to stop it.

He missed a slam dunk when he pivoted from abortion to immigration, there was no logical reason to do that. Let alone some of his other statements. We need an open convention, if Trump is as big of a threat to democracy as Dems (accurately) claim then it is far past time that they start acting like it.

Frankly I see a LOT more of that misunderstanding from people who think shaming others into voting blue is an effective strategy than I do from people who express that they want to vote third party.