All I’m seeing is pro-Palestine content. Or do you define that as anti-Kamala on account of Harris being pro-Israel?

Frankly, if you do, I’d consider this comment very disingenuous. “anti-Kamala” and “pro-Palestine” sound very different to people.

If they’re arguing that people should vote, or that they shouldn’t vote Green due to spoiler effects, then they’re not arguing with me, frankly.

My position throughout this thread is that it’s folly to avoid pressuring Democrat tickets to improve their platform, not that anyone should abstain from voting or vote third party. I’m going to vote in November and it won’t be for the Greens. The key part is that I also plan to shame the Dem ticket for doing such a poor job in the meantime, too; they need to move left now, not later.

Believe me, I’ve got no qualms with you, in this thread or elsewhere. I upvoted several of your comments here because insofar as I can tell, you are right. I’m not defending the Greens in this thread and never have. I do not care for them.

But I’m sure you’ve seen as I have the negative reactions that so frequently occur from so many when Harris’ platform or campaign are criticized. Anytime anyone tries to suggest that she is doing a terrible job of appealing to anyone left-of-center, all while playing ads that play up conservative talking points, it feels as though a barrage of comments is immediately launched to decry it. This is and has been extremely frustrating for me to constantly see, hence why I push back so much on it in this thread.

And I can probably guess as to the feelings that motivate this; people quite possibly fear the criticism will undermine the election’s odds of not going towards a fascist. But this is still misplaced blame. If the Democrats lose this election, it’ll be their fault, not the fault of people like Flash Mob.

The Democrats’ own platform doesn’t matter?!

I really hope I don’t need to explain why this is an obnoxiously awful take.

None of that changes anything about the fact that this is still the entirely wrong way to go about trying to win an election. The Democrats are letting people down and trying to win solely off of Trump being worse. You shouldn’t be surprised that this strategy does not resonate with people. If everyone here pressured the Democrats to do better instead of yelling at folks for not being jazzed about milquetoast-at-best non-promises, I can guarantee you voter turnout would be much better.

Nobody’s obligated to continue a debate ad nauseam. Bowing out is a healthy skill, and we should not be shaming that.

Besides, if your interlocutor leaves the discussion, that means you got the last word. There’s no need to sling mud. Just take the win.

Given how obvious it is that there are many different groups amongst left-wing politics and a great degree of nuance therein, I cannot possibly see your post as anything other than a deliberately bad-faith interpretation.

If you want to convince people who’re upset with the Democrats’ poor policy offerings to vote for them, you aren’t going to do it by shaming them into settling for less. It does not and will never work.

If the Democrats want to win, it is on them to offer an actually appealing platform. Blame them for failing at that.

Much as I plan to hold my nose and vote for Harris, I can’t help but feel simultaneously bemused and saddened how every time you talk about her actually trying to earn your vote, you receive comment after comment tearing you down as though her terrible policy is fine and that only YOU can stop Trump. As though Harris herself were powerless to change her own platform to appeal more.

Party loyalty is so strong these days entirely too many people forget that candidates have agency. They’d rather shame people or call them bots than consider if it might be more effective for the candidate to actually listen to their own constituency.

From the article, emphasis mine:

According to a report from Shanghai’s The Paper, the incident involved the company’s branch in Shenzhen’s Longhua district, where an employee involved in the filming said it was intended as a joke, and that the three employees in the video had volunteered to take part. The employee said the branch did not punish employees for small mistakes like forgetting straws.

On Wednesday afternoon, Good Me issued a public apology through its Weibo account. “We’re sorry,” it said. “We were playing with punchlines, and it went all wrong.”

Whether or not you might trust that statement, I do think it’s worthwhile context. This post seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill – even the actual article’s title/subtitle makes it clear this was a joke – and I find that in very poor taste given how high tensions are on this topic.

This is tangential, but am I the only one getting sick and tired of all the topics about China? The imperial core’s news industry’s obsession with the country has never been healthy, and none of the articles being posted have had me thinking any of that is changing. I’m seeing post after post, usually from the same two users, and I’m starting to worry that the line between “documenting the atrocities of an authoritarian country” and “sinophobia” might start to get blurry.

To be clear, I’m not trying to point fingers. I don’t want to make assumptions about the users in question. I’ve just been seeing this for a few months now and it’s getting on my nerves, especially given the political climate of the United States.

I don’t personally believe everything’s so bad as it looks. There’s a lot to be mad about, for sure, but it’s worth remembering that fear and anger are some of the best-selling emotions the news has to offer. Doubly so if it’s about China. But none of that means that things are substantially worse than they used to be. Some of it is that things weren’t as good as we thought, some of it is that things are being made to look worse than they are.

Either way, we didn’t start the fire.

Joel conceived the idea for the song when he had just turned 40. He was in a recording studio and met a 21-year-old friend of Sean Lennon who said “It’s a terrible time to be 21!” Joel replied: “Yeah, I remember when I was 21 — I thought it was an awful time and we had Vietnam, and y’know, drug problems, and civil rights problems and everything seemed to be awful.” The friend replied: “Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it’s different for you. You were a kid in the fifties and everybody knows that nothing happened in the fifties.” Joel retorted: “Wait a minute, didn’t you hear of the Korean War or the Suez Canal Crisis?” Joel later said those headlines formed the basic framework for the song.

While I’ll agree that even focusing on votes is healthier than constantly worrying about how the terrible guy continued saying terrible things, there are better tactics than that available to us. If folks here want to worry about votes though, I’d recommend things that fight voter disenfranchisement, like ensuring polls have sufficient volunteers, or helping ensure people in line to vote will have enough time, food and water to wait out a long line.

(It should be noted though that it is unlikely he will be convicted, even if the Dems win, so don’t get your hopes too high.)

Did you read my comment? Here, I’ll help you.

I do not want anyone to vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain. What I want is for them to understand that voting is the minimum they can do, and that they can and should protest the current and future admin’s policies regarding Israel until they stop enabling genocide, regardless of the color of the tie they wear.

Read that paragraph, then try again. Maybe with less antagonism, yeah?

A regular reminder to everyone here that they do not actually have to care what Trump says. You already know he’s shit. Focus on something healthier.

You can absolutely pressure Harris, though. Join a protest.

Trust me, I’m well aware of literally everything you’ve just said. I get told it on almost every comment I make here, and every time people make the same two big mistakes:

1. Limiting their thinking to votes.

2. Refusing to push Democrats left, because they’re scared it might hurt Harris’ election chances.^[1]

I am pushing against #2 in this thread first and foremost, and getting #1 out of your response as a result. Please, understand that I know that Democrats are better than Trump. Everybody knows that, and if you think I want people to vote against Harris you are misunderstanding me entirely.

I do not want anyone to vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain. What I want is for them to understand that voting is the minimum they can do, and that they can and should protest the current and future admin’s policies regarding Israel until they stop enabling genocide, regardless of the color of the tie they wear.

If we let Democrats scare us with Trump or someone like him every year, nothing will change.

And why’s that on us? Why is it our job to toe a party line when said line means killing people en masse?

It’s supposed to be their job to represent us, not our job to kiss their asses. Stop letting the DNC use Trump as an excuse to do whatever they want; if they want to be more electable, maybe it’s on them to adopt a better platform.

Why is someone’s reluctance to vote for your preferred candidate more upsetting to you than said candidate’s choice to platform genocide?

If you’re so worried about Trump being elected, maybe you should push for Harris to adopt better policy so people are more comfortable voting for her, rather than shaming people for not wanting to vote for the lesser of two genocides.