That would be a really shit poll though, your methodology would be “I found people who I knew would answer the question this way” and everyone would see. If there is a methodological issue with this poll that isn’t hand-waving I’d be interested to hear it.

E.g. “but who answers the phone anymore?” They know this issue and use a bunch of complicated statistical shit to adjust for it or just improve the methodology. The people making these polls actually tend to know what they’re doing.

There were reflectors left on the moon that you can shine a significantly strong laser to and have it reflected back if you have a sensor that can pick it back up.

Yeah this is the huge issue for moon landing deniers. Also they have pictures of the landing site from the lunar reconnaissance orbiter, not that “school of hard knocks” alumni would believe that anyway (I tried once, did not convince them).

I was mainly using it as an example of how you could argue there was an element of “faith” at play, being generous. But of course you are right.

I’m unable to articulate the natural reaction that I have when somebody tries to sell me garbage. I can’t articulate it when somebody explains to me, ‘Well, the moon landings definitely happened.’"

Owens continued: “I’m just like, no, I don’t know. Instinctually, it just doesn’t register to me. Just feels like that is a lie. And I’ve realized that I’ve been thinking deeply about this, this pagan cult that we exist in. It is backed by a false science deity. That is what it is. It is the science. This is the new god.”

So she just “instinctively” doesn’t believe stuff that “feels” like a lie, and this proof that everyone else worships the “science deity.” No mention of the giant rocket that left the surface of the earth and the video footage of both that and the surface of the moon itself?

This is the fundamental problem with this type of thinking. Sure you have some aspect of faith (I wasn’t there, can’t 100% confirm the authenticity of the footage myself), but it’s clearly based on quite a solid piece of evidence. Dismissing that, on the other hand, is literally based on faith, her faith that this footage is fake based on no evidence whatsoever.

I contribute that, maybe, to coming from the school of hard knocks," she said, adding, “I am grateful for having gone through the school of hard knocks because you are required to have an element of common sense in order to survive.”

The “school of hard knocks” apparently does not have a good science program.

I only read this article to work out why she specified “pagan” and I still have no idea.

And now we grasp at straws. Anything to avoid facing the reality of the situation.

He might have had a bad connection for a second. It would be more compelling if it had been, I don’t know, on the debate stage with 50 million people watching.

Everyone rightfully talks about how awful Trump is, but as soon as Biden does something like support a genocide or come across like a doddering old man in a debate, all of a sudden “Trump does it too” is apparently a defense.

Before someone jumps down my throat about the election being a choice between two people, it’s not. People might also hate both and not vote. Not saying it’s wise, just saying it’s possible.

Yeah I also watched a 30 minute highlight video because since Trump has been involved I’ve found watching the whole thing to be intolerable. I am totally open to anybody showing me “high points” for Biden that maybe CNN skipped over in their condensed version.

He got a couple zingers off

Lol please share. “Morals of an alleycat”? (or whatever the exact quote is)

As for the rest, I agree that obviously for general factual content Biden even on his deathbed will beat Trump. However it was undermined by the errors, e.g. getting the price of insulin wrong and millions/billions mixed up more than once. That is the problem.

I’ll bet you that if he was on his A game, everyone would have been yelling performance enhancement drugs!

Almost certainly. But he wasn’t so it’s not really the point here.

Seems like caving into republican talking points way too easily…

You know what they say about stopped clocks. They will always have this shit to say about Biden, absolutely. So why have I (and many others, NYT included) all of a sudden “caved into” republican talking points after ignoring or arguing against them until now?

Honestly to me the more interesting “talking points” at the minute are from some democrats, who after (assumedly) reacting in horror with the rest of us after the debate, have latched onto the “He had a cold” excuse that they came out with and tried to pass the whole thing off as a “stutter” issue.

I think people can see the difference between a stutter and whatever the hell happened at the debate. He wasn’t stuttering, he was freezing up and getting sentences jumbled up. He was not capable of having a coherent debate, and the only saving grace is that Trump isn’t either (different reasons, but still).

So I find it a little strange how people are talking about his performance, now. We all know what we watched, and that is why everybody freaked the fuck out straight afterwards. Trying to gaslight everyone is not a productive or helpful strategy. (Not you necessarily, by the way, just “the discourse” in general. I would like to see any examples you have of what you’re saying)

This is not fair description of his debate performance. He didn’t stutter, he crashed like an old computer trying to keep 50 chrome tabs running and then barely dragged himself out of it with incoherent nonsense like “we beat Medicare.”

It doesn’t disqualify him, it just lowers the bar for Trump.

This is getting down voted here, but it shouldn’t be just because some people disagree. The NYT editorial board coming out with this is a Big Deal. It has the potential to change the race. A lot of influential people still read it.

The people downvoting don’t care. This community is particularly bad for it, imo. There is a group of people who will downvote literally anything bad for Biden, and think that people like return2ozma, who seems to genuinely be a democrat, are posting bad news as part of some plot to suppress the vote (?) and help Trump win.

One time I saw one poll with good news for Biden upvoted and another, equally legit poll in a different state (I think this was a swing state too) but showing Trump in the lead sitting on zero. It is not about whether it is significant for these people, it is literally “Is this good or bad for My Guy? Does this fit the echo chamber I want to live in?”

They absolutely should not downvote something like this, you’re totally right. Any relevant political analysis/news from a respected source should get upvoted. But the (justified) fear of Trump is making tribalism hit hard and turning some people into petulant children with nothing to do but demand we “vote blue” and prop up the narrative.

If they commit a crime then we can lock them up. If they don’t then they have the same rights as you and me. And that is a GOOD THING.

So we can class them as a specific subgroup that we’re allowed to mistreat and don’t have the same rights as everyone else? We could make them wear little badges.

Is there a minimum “rate” for a genocide, then?

They have a “no go” zone in the city where I live. I went there. It is nice. The people are poor by Swedish standards but if you’re not from here you would not bat an eye. The only way you believe this is if you have never been to Sweden, or at least not a “no go” zone and/or you get all your news from racist right wing fuckwits who desperately try to convince you that Arabs are destroying European society.

OP Sweden is nice, even Stockholm and Gothenburg, just a bit expensive

Definitely a lot of the things people claim Trump will do are more theoretical than not. But also Trump was actually president so it’s not all theoretical, it will probably be a lot like last time. i.e. totally shit.

But people aren’t always pragmatic so I think convincing someone to vote for you is a much better plan. Biden is in a popularly contest with a racist, idiotic convicted felon and is still somehow about tied with him. Hate to always bring up the supporting a genocide thing but I MEAN…

Trump and Biden are two sides of same coin. They are not so vastly different as you portend

They are different on almost every issue

Trump wants to “get rid” of the Education Department, make it easier to fire civil servants (the section F stuff), at minimum become more hostile to NATO and at worst leave, cut taxes for rich people, relax any environmental policies, allow states to take away the right to abortion, and even in Biden’s shittiest area, Gaza, Trump seems to think the issue is that they weren’t quick enough with the killing and had bad PR. Immigration, Biden has some shitty policies but Trump wants a Muslim ban again.

I could go on. Fuck Biden. Fuck Trump even more.

It means something, clearly. This is only meaningless if enough people in the US are pragmatic and sensible and will vote for people they dislike to keep out a monster… Let me just have a check what happened in 2016 OH GOD OH FUCK WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE

My dude we all know what Israel is doing. Take your hasbara and fuck off

Who the fuck cares. The democrats did it and it is shit. Literally sending military equipment which will be used to kill children. “But the republicans” is the lamest, most pathetic fucking response to that. Political tribalism has rotted your brain

If this horror continues until January, Gaza is already gone. I don’t even know what the fuck they would do if it stops today. He had the chance to be better and he fucked it up. I actually believed he would be better than this.

Obligatory yes you should still vote for Biden because Trump is obviously worse and undoubtedly the West Bank would be next. Not to mention project 2025. But “horrific” policy is not the best selling point, even when pitted against “even worse” policy. American politics is truly broken.

Obviously this is cruel and the republicans can go fuck themselves. But also it would be quite hilariously stupid for the US to pay to destroy Gaza and pay to rebuild it.

I would say help rebuild it, but perhaps they should have reconsidered the destroying part. But hey what do I know. Something something important ally in the region, just a little smidge of genocide and apartheid. All good nothing to see here

I understand that, also I think most of it was in your previous comment. What you didn’t do is answer the question: how long has Gaza got?

It’s 5 months to the election. How long has Gaza got? It already seems too late.