Skiluros

Leftists want to move beyond it.

That’s not always true. Many self described leftists support authoritarian state capitalism.

That’s a fair evaluation, but it removes agency from the American populace.

From my time in the US, I got the impression the roots of the current oligarchic regime mostly lie in the cultural attitudes of the American population. It’s not like the US got invaded by an external force or it had to deal with extraordinary circumstances.

Just one example, is the superficial attitude to things like “freedom of speech” or “free markets”. IMO, that is the real source of oligarchic/criminal power in the US.

Surely a modicum of responsibility can be attached to the US public more broadly and not just public sentiment manipulators.

As someone who has lived in the US for several years (before Trump), the impression I get is that Trump is more of a symptom and not the cause.

I am big supporter of tactical voting, I just don’t understand the framing of the article.

Not to be a downer, but so what if the US center right comes back to power?

Leverage tactical voting as much as you like (I’ve done it myself), but also there have to be outcomes from tactical voting.

When I lived in the US, I didn’t find this sort of logic convincing.

If you want to address “Republican malfeasance”, the US is going to have to address corruption and criminality and take on the oligarchs. What you describe is going to happen anyway, institutions can protect you, until the day they don’t. This is something even centre-right Americans seem to find it difficult to understand (I still have friends from the US that I talk with).

And let’s be real, that’s very unlikely to happen in the next 20-30 years.

Crazy that rules for birth certificates are not national.

You are correct, it’s a choice. But no one (IMO even the thread OP) is arguing there is a physiologic reason for the lack of empathy. It’s shorthand for saying they choose not to show empathy and this won’t change any time soon (i.e. definitely not in the next 20-30 years).

Look, I am probably more on your side than our conversation would suggest, but I cannot imagine any realistic scenario of positive developments in American society. Can you? If yes, what is this scenario?

I misunderstood. Apologies.

While I agree that a black and white approach isn’t exactly accurate, you can get to a point where the situation becomes close enough to black/white as a matter of practical considerations (i.e. outcomes). Again, not something specific to the US, it can and does happen everywhere.

I am still clinging to the hope that the Americans will turn things around (i.e. no Obama “hope and change” while avoiding addressing crime and corruption), but it’s becoming increasingly difficult.

And claiming that the overwhelming majority of the US far right is incapable of empathy (or that they are fundamentally supportive of crime and corruption) isn’t factually incorrect to my knowledge.

I disagree with this framing.

I’ve travelled and lived for several years in many countries across NA (including the US), Europe and Asia.

One thing that I’ve learned is that it’s important to keep an open mind, to look at the good things in a given society/culture and to not be overly judgmental. It’s important to not frame thing in terms of expectations from another environment.

That being said there are limits to everything. Looking at the trajectory of American society, it is not unreasonable to speculate that their march towards a chauvinistic, corrupt plutocracy is not going to stop.

I would love to be wrong (it’s a disaster that the US has essentially turned into a mafia state), but to deny reality is the definition of cope.

One thing worth considering, is that on a global/historical basis it is not unheard of for whole societies (strong majority if not overwhelming majority) to descend into degeneracy, chauvinism and corruption.

In a sense, this is not something specific to the US. These things unfortunately happen.

I see where you are coming from, but I think it’s dangerous to give too much benefit of the doubt and to look at things as we want them to be, not how they are.

I would disagree (not from the US, but I have lived there, travelled extensively and have American friends who I speak to pretty regularly).

The “low information” environment is a choice (especially nowadays). Scapegoating is a choice. A two party state is a choice. Even the unaddressed material and social grievances is a choice. US is rich enough to solve all these issues with no problem at all.

The real issue is that a significant portion of Americans support corruption, crime and believe lying is good. While at the same time parroting tedious polemics about “freedumz and shiiit”.

And on top of that the majority of the voter base of the centre-right opposition is fundemantely opposed to anti-corruption, anti-crime and governance (in terms of real outcomes, not words). Most of them are simply too well off to risk rocking the boat (until it’s too late).

While this is a gross generalisation, there is a reason why the following stereotype is applied to Americans:

There are no poor people in the US, just soon-to-be billionaires

From my experience living in the US, I would say “dim” is an incorrect characterization. Supportive of corruption, crime and dishonesty is IMO a much more accurate characterization.

The 40% approval rating is damning for the American socio-political system.

At some point one has to realize that over time political systems cannot survive without major reforms.

Imagine showing this news article to someone in 1998 or 2000.

Or perhaps even 2015, which wasn’t that long ago.

Here is a counter-arguement. It is the responsibility of the citizens to make sure things like the Patriot Act or ICE are used in a fair manner with oversight and restrictions.

The notion that “the government” is some external entity is an easy and satisfying polemic, but it’s not helpful in a practical sense.

I hate the term “cope”, but there honestly is no better way to describe this article.

From my experience living in the US, a significant portion of the local population (be it far right or centre right) are generally supportive of crime and corruption. The centre right opposition is incapable of any meaningful action on crime and they are too involved in local corruption schemes to change. And a significant portion of the centre-right electorate also support crime. Not saying it was always like that or it can’t change; this is a mere (extremely subjective) evaluation of the current situation.

From the perspective of people in other countries (that support democracy, efficient governance, innovation), it is reasonable to assume that Americans cannot be relied upon in any substantive manner irrespective of whether the far right or centre right is in power; at least for the next 30-50 years. Much of their civil society and civil service (that was world class at one point) is completely debased and have been replaced by local criminals and regressives.

It is reasonable to assume this is not going to change any time soon. Instead we’ll have usual pompous bullshit.

To quote Barack Obama:

“You know, don’t tell me you’re a Democrat, but you’re kind of disappointed right now, so you’re not doing anything. No, now is exactly the time that you get in there and do something,” he said. “Don’t say that you care deeply about free speech and then you’re quiet. No, you stand up for free speech when it’s hard. When somebody says something that you don’t like, but you still say, ‘You know what, that person has the right to speak.’ … What’s needed now is courage.”

What’s needed now is courage?

What the fuck does this even mean?

Not to mention the tedious polemics about free speech.

Not an American (although I have lived there for several years and travelled extensively), it doesn’t matter if the Democrats win.

I say this as someone who always votes and has done tactical voting many times.

The US centre right is incapable of addressing corruption and criminality, not only because the party apparatus is itself corrupt, but because most American centre right voters are simply too well off to risk rocking the boat. They’ll keep trying to avoid addressing corruption until it’s too late.

The corruption of the centre right is a symptom, with the cause being American society (specifically a large portion of centre right voters).

This is not doomerism in the least. In any country/context, the first step to overcoming immense odds is recognizing what the problem is. If you don’t take the first step, you’ll definitely never get to your goal.

It is not my intention to be petty and have a laugh. Until centre right public totally rejects comical American-style polemics about alleged commitment to “free speech” and “free markets”, they will never address corruption and debasement of their institutions.

And yet Obama and other senior centre right figures are still parroting the same shallow, tedious copytext that they’ve been pitching for the last years.

If a commoner got caught money laundering, they would get fucked.

I actually had my bank accounts frozen because I miscalculated a quarterly tax payment by 2 dollars equivalent in local currency. Had to ask my family members to pay because all my money was frozen.

I will add that corruption isn’t unique to the US of course. I am from Ukraine and it’s actually what I hate most about my country, how people don’t pay taxes and come up with dumb excuses like “well the oligarchs are stealing, we should start at the top first”. That being said, at least people here recognize that corruption is wrong and that there is no real way forward without addressing it.

Considering that this fellow was reinstated by the Democrats, it means they don’t really feel any pressure from the public.

This is not a recent thing either. I was living in the US in the late 2000s and I thought it was interesting how Obama decided to simply not prosecute the financial services oligarchs gangs after the great recession. One would think this is a historical opportunity to make them take responsibility for their actions.

Cuellar was charged in 2024 for allegedly accepting $600,000 in bribes from two foreign entities, according to an indictment released by the Justice Department. The indictment accused Cuellar of accepting payments from Azerbaijan’s state-run oil-and-gas company after they had been laundered through shell companies owned by his wife.

America is so corrupt. And so many people there have the gall talk about other countries.