Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?
Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here. edit: typo
Democrats won’t reduce any harm.
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave. I hope that gives a different perspective on this.
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave.
Democrats have no concept of solidarity. None. They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
The undocumented? Under the bus. Muslims? Under the bus. Rail workers? Under the bus. If you expect solidarity from Democrats, prepare to tuck and roll.
Two Democratic politicians already threw trans people under the bus, saying the party is too left on trans-issues, and then parroting the “people don’t want biological boys in girl’s sports” bullshit.
And then that one Dem who ran the campaign ad “I’ve never pushed for sex changes,” or something like that.
I’m trans too, and honestly, I will never be supporting the DNC again after hearing that from two of their congressional members.
Democrats have only recently been openly favorable to gay people within the last decade. Minorities have been using the Democrats to shift things to the left in this country for decades before that.
They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
I’m aware of the messaging. That’s still not the same as a ban on gender affirming care, removal of employment protections, and the rounding up of homeless people.
Rail workers
Biden actually helped rail workers. He should have stuck with them from the start and done more, but it’s better than nothing.
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left. But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats. In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists. It’s how we protect the people that Republicans want to harm and kill. It’s how we buy time to get a populist movement to co-opt the Democratic Party.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE. I get that that’s a selling point for you, but some of us see that as already fascist-adjacent. And moving right from that just gets you fascism.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
But like he did help them though.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we’ll find out.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE.
Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don’t care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don’t live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn’t going to help anyone. In fact, it’s going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted. Then again, since you think that “we totally want to” is a policy, “we’re taking credit” is the same as an accomplishment.
I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time. But yeah, the party moved to the right and alienated the base and exactly what I was called a Russian for saying happened. Democrats stayed home. Your faith in the willingness of the Democratic Party to change for the better is misplaced. If they continue on their current course, they will lose 2026 and 2028. And despite your constant pollyanna insistence that if we just care bear stare at them they’ll change, I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
Biden supported genocide.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted.
I did. Biden should have done more. But he didn’t do nothing.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
I want people to be vocal. You’re doing that. I disagree with what is being said.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time.
And I tried to warn you people. You played right into the hands of MAGA and the Kremlin. We knew who Harris and the Democrats were. The goal was to prevent fascism anyway. There was no other viable strategy, but people still tried to sink Harris’ campaign anyway.
I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
The Democratic Party is a tool, not a friend you need to have faith in.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
I showed receipts. Reiterate the same lie as many times as you want. It will still be a lie.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
What matter’s is that it was Biden’s decision. People in his administration disagreed with him.
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
No, I mean you wouldn’t still be in this thread shitting on Democrats if you cared. You would want to spend your time going after Trump, since he’s going to president, but that’s not where you are directing your energy.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
That’s what I’m telling you. We need to co-opt the Democrats. I’m not making excuses for their behavior, I’m arguing for a strategy to advance our goals. Voting for Democrats until the party is co-opted by a progressive and socialist populist movement buys us time to make that happen. If you read my comments you would know my argument’s position by now.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
You at me. Be vocal. But do it in a way that is useful.
They’re using you. Not the other way around.
People are definitely using you. They got you arguing against your own interests and you don’t even know. Or maybe you don’t care. That moral victory is too important to you. edit: typo
Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here. edit: typo
Hi, I’m a trans person. I’m not the most at risk trans person since I’m pre-transition, but it’s definitely a case of they would if they could. I would not like to be murdered in a death camp please. Like if Democrats can’t get trans messaging right, because they suck at winning, fine. At least they aren’t trying to completely ostracize me from society and make me dig my own grave. I hope that gives a different perspective on this.
Democrats have no concept of solidarity. None. They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.
The undocumented? Under the bus. Muslims? Under the bus. Rail workers? Under the bus. If you expect solidarity from Democrats, prepare to tuck and roll.
Two Democratic politicians already threw trans people under the bus, saying the party is too left on trans-issues, and then parroting the “people don’t want biological boys in girl’s sports” bullshit.
And then that one Dem who ran the campaign ad “I’ve never pushed for sex changes,” or something like that.
I’m trans too, and honestly, I will never be supporting the DNC again after hearing that from two of their congressional members.
Democrats have only recently been openly favorable to gay people within the last decade. Minorities have been using the Democrats to shift things to the left in this country for decades before that.
I’m aware of the messaging. That’s still not the same as a ban on gender affirming care, removal of employment protections, and the rounding up of homeless people.
Biden actually helped rail workers. He should have stuck with them from the start and done more, but it’s better than nothing.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155763336/freight-rail-workers-union-paid-sick-leave-bernie-sanders-csx
The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left. But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats. In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.
Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists. It’s how we protect the people that Republicans want to harm and kill. It’s how we buy time to get a populist movement to co-opt the Democratic Party.
Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE. I get that that’s a selling point for you, but some of us see that as already fascist-adjacent. And moving right from that just gets you fascism.
But like he did help them though.
No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I’m not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we’ll find out.
We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.
Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don’t care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump’s promise of indefinite genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I’ve got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I’ve got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don’t live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn’t going to help anyone. In fact, it’s going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
But like maybe you should have read the article you posted. Then again, since you think that “we totally want to” is a policy, “we’re taking credit” is the same as an accomplishment.
You’re just interested in anyone who is even remotely dissatisfied with Democrats shutting up or being shut up, regardless of what Democrats do.
Dude, I fucking tried to warn about what was going to happen and I wasn’t the only one. At least here on lemmy, it meant being called a trumper and a Russian every last time. But yeah, the party moved to the right and alienated the base and exactly what I was called a Russian for saying happened. Democrats stayed home. Your faith in the willingness of the Democratic Party to change for the better is misplaced. If they continue on their current course, they will lose 2026 and 2028. And despite your constant pollyanna insistence that if we just care bear stare at them they’ll change, I have no remaining faith in the party. Not after this election.
As did Harris, vague meaningless non-policy promises notwithstanding.
Ooh. Were they strongly worded?
This thread is about Democrats. Of course Trump is worse. That doesn’t excuse selling weapons for an ongoing genocide.
I’m telling you not to be a damned fool. The party will sell you out. It’s what they do. It’s a pattern of behavior that you’ve been making excuses for.
Who is screaming at whom to be silent?
They’re using you. Not the other way around.
I did. Biden should have done more. But he didn’t do nothing.
I want people to be vocal. You’re doing that. I disagree with what is being said.
And I tried to warn you people. You played right into the hands of MAGA and the Kremlin. We knew who Harris and the Democrats were. The goal was to prevent fascism anyway. There was no other viable strategy, but people still tried to sink Harris’ campaign anyway.
The Democratic Party is a tool, not a friend you need to have faith in.
I showed receipts. Reiterate the same lie as many times as you want. It will still be a lie.
What matter’s is that it was Biden’s decision. People in his administration disagreed with him.
No, I mean you wouldn’t still be in this thread shitting on Democrats if you cared. You would want to spend your time going after Trump, since he’s going to president, but that’s not where you are directing your energy.
That’s what I’m telling you. We need to co-opt the Democrats. I’m not making excuses for their behavior, I’m arguing for a strategy to advance our goals. Voting for Democrats until the party is co-opted by a progressive and socialist populist movement buys us time to make that happen. If you read my comments you would know my argument’s position by now.
You at me. Be vocal. But do it in a way that is useful.
People are definitely using you. They got you arguing against your own interests and you don’t even know. Or maybe you don’t care. That moral victory is too important to you. edit: typo