Man. Any one else here old enough to remember when Democrats were handed their anti-war mandate in 2008, and then Obama went on to get the high score in US led wedding drone strikes?
Anyways. If Democrats do nothing with the mandates they are given, voters inevitably gravitate towards whomever will promise them change, because ultimately, thats what voters have been asking for 30 years.
Member when the Snowden leaks happened and Obama/Dems worked hand in hand with R’s to continue the implementation of turnkey totalitarianism?
Member when we argued that they were building the machinery necessary to easily commit genocide and enslave everyone in a panopticon police state FOR FASCISM; that the very existence of this machinery itself was fundamentally authoritarian and anti-democratic… and the shitlib majority believed the government could never turn against the people; that entertaining this threat was an insane conspiracy theory?
This extreme level of gross negligence, criminal incompetence, and overall systemic failure — unilaterally across all of western “democracy” — is an indicator that we do not live in democracies, but in dictatorships of capital; that classical liberalism itself is failing humanity and the planet; incompatible with democracy, sustainability, and the long term survival of the species.
That’s what a lot of these copiod posters tend to forget, or simply weren’t alive for. It’s great the dems are using populist messaging again, but we’ve been here before. In fact we’ve been here so often it’s kinda annoying.
But hey, here’s either another example of the dems acting as no more than a ratchet, or, maybe, improbably, they’ll do the right thing and start enacting the overwhelmingly popular bipartisan policies like isolationist defensive military strategy, local manufacturing and labor incentives, and medicare for all.
Dems gonna take 100% full advantage of this opportunity. \s
Here’s how you get stuff done with a Democratic majority in Congress and Trump as president. Draft a bill to shut down ICE operations, enact Medicare for All, etc… and name it the Trump is the Greatest President Ever bill.
Add in a Triumphal Arch and maybe even authorization to convert Stone Mountain into a bust of Trump. Hell I’d trade a stupid arch for MFA.
The mental anguish it would cause Trump to even contemplate vetoing a bill named Trump is the Great President Ever bill would be too much for him to bear.
It’s worth trying.
As far as the Iran war is concerned, draft a bill that stops the war, pays reparations and begins a normalization process and call it the Trump won the Iran war bill, or something like that.
He’s so demented and diminished now that, this could actually work.
The “Trump Brilliantly Fixes the SCOTUS” bill, expanding the court, should be the last one in December 2028. Just in time for the new Democrat president to nominate justices.
And the Democrats will once again ignore any mandate from voters that conflicts with the orders they get from their donors.
There’s a warehouse full of shiny new Fell For It Again awards waiting to be handed out to all the optimistic ShitLibs who saw the returns Tuesday night and are already checked out and back at brunch.
Pessimism of the mind. Optimism of the spirit. You are correct that there are a lot of ways things can go wrong, but that just means we need to put in the work to overcome those obstacles. Put that pessimism to work by using it to predict and surmout roadblocks. If you feel phone calls arent enough, go door knock. If you feels door knocking isn’t enough, start organizing. If you feel organizing isn’t enough, run for office. Get more and more involved in politics until you understand in your soul that a better future is possible, if only we all work together to make it happen.
I spent a decade as a campaign staffer for progressive Dem candidates. I know whereof I speak when I say that’s all a waste of time if your phone calls, door knocks, and organizing are running through the Democratic Party, because the people who control the levers of power inside the party will never allow anyone to the left of Kissinger to touch them. They’ve created all the rules to guarantee no body can stop them or take away their ability to gatekeep.all the meaningful power in the party.
But don’t take my word for it, take your own advice, bust your ass for progressive campaigns and see how far it gets you. Once you see it for yourself, you’ll basically be me.
You’re being a bitter crumudgen because there are now more Democrats that fought and won against AIPAC money and big money politics with good policy platforms. They ran on a platform of Medicare for all, ending wars, and more progressive policies. We need to see how it shakes out, and calling them ShitLibs is just naked cynicism. When it inevitably comes down to corporate Democrats blocking these efforts, you can go ahead and call them out, but the only way forward is to primary them with better people. Pretending like the new batch is the old batch is disingenuous.
Pretending that DSA Blue is in any way meaningfully different than Third Way Blue is an exercise in idealism and a refusal to learn anything at all from history. Your Fell For It Again Award will be along in 6-12 months when the fig leaf falls off and the naked neoliberalism is back on display.
There is at best 10 anti Israel democrats politicians
You’re being obtuse then because there’s already been a house and senate votes with over 100 Democrats that voted no to Israeli money. Here are 40 Democrat senators that voted to stop the money faucet: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1192/vote_119_2_00080.htm. So literally take your cynicism and disappear until you can converse like an adult.
The bill talk about conditional weapons to israel not zero weapons.
Good luck. There is no easy way to peace now that Iran has realized the terror of closing Hormuz and the power it provides.
There is no way back to the old status quo. And the regime change was botched so badly that more radical people are in power now. Beheading an enemy does not in fact mean victory.
Also Israel/the Jews are considered an enemy of the state by some hard liners in Iran and must be displaced from Israel/Palestine. This means that the more radical government is likely to be a guarantee for continued low to mid level conflict.
You conflate Israel and “the jews” in your comment, and I see many of your other comments are pro Israel. Israel has indiscriminately committed massive amounts of crimes against humanity on citizens of the entire world, and has freely attacked all it neighbors in naked land grabs. Its a barbarian murder/theft state guilty of war crimes and it needs to end as an entity and its citizens flown back to the Us and Russia where they belong. Take your racist zionism elsewhere. The world is sick of your sides criminality and racism.
Israel is an enemy of the state of Iran, and Iraq, and Syria, and Lebanon, and Yemen, and Afghanistan, and Palestine, and the United States, and Europe, and ~208 other countries.
That is an objective fact of our reality. They are a ethnosupremacist fascist nation that has committed one of the most well documented genocides in world history. If there are humans in a hundred years, Israel will be viewed on the same level or worse than Nazi Germany, and all countries that enabled Israel to exist will be viewed as worthless appeasers.
Nothing can change that fact. Do not lament that states will now have to do DIPLOMACY, which Israel and the US have refused to do.
Also Israel/the Jews are considered an enemy of the state by some hard liners in Iran and must be displaced from Israel/Palestine.
Perfect, then we have something they want, and they have something we want. The solution is obvious.
Simply sign a treaty with Iran that prohibits the US from providing military support to Israel in exchange for opening the strait. Americans get lower gas prices, the Palestinian genocide ends, Iranians don’t get bombed, it’s a win-win-win. They won’t close the strait again for fear of the US resuming aid.
Literally all we have to do is say fuck Israel, which they 100% brought about themselves, and frankly them getting fucked is one more win.
That’s like guaranteeing Ukraine’s safety in exchange for their bombs.
Who gives a shit about guaranteeing Israel’s safety? If they’re relying on the international community for defense, they probably should’ve thought about that before alienating the entire world with their monsterous actions.
From an American perspective, It’s not every day you get a chance to drastically reduce gas prices and all it costs is screwing over some genocidal apartheid state that you ought to be abandoning anyway. A chance like this to both do the right thing and make things easier on the people is a golden opportunity that rarely comes along in politics.
There’s actually an easy solution to guaranteeing Israel’s safety, too. After we agree with Iran to cut active military aid, we go to Israel and offer a treaty where we’ll still come to their aid in the case of invasion, on the condition that they grant every Palestinian equal rights, including voting rights.
No, the solution is so easy the usa just have to give the compensations to iran for starting an illegal war. And stop conflating israel with jews in general?
Why? Why be happy with the old status quo? Gauge them for what you can get away with. And that’s a lot. When you bet it all on 67 and get a 0 you don’t get your bet back.
Also a war being illegal doesn’t mean much anyway. Wars are legislated badly since the world wars and virtually always illegal. Without a world police to rectify illegality that’s worth nothing.
Bavaria also does refuse to act in accordance with international law for about 50 years on the topic of Education Leave(Bildungsurlaub)
Starting an illegal war mean thst you are the aggressor and the aggressor has to pay compensation to the other side. Bavaria do not care about IL therefore it is ok for everybody to not respect it? Whst kind of logic is this?
No. This just is an example for that international law is barely law.
Same goes for the legality of wars: might makes right. You being an agressor does not fundamentally mean that you will lose and must pay unless the world police shows up and puts a gun to your head.
If you don’t care about international laws you can’t complain about anything including the 9/11 attacks
Bullshit. Something being IL just doesn’t have a bearing on how it is going to be enforced or reacted to. There is a wide spectrum there. The terror attacks of 9/11(2001) were hainous and sparked international outrage.
sparked international outrage
Decide yourself, are you with international laws or not. You seem ok when the west do terror attacks . The bombing of the school in Itran on the first day was a terrorist attack. The firebombing of Tokyo was always the worst terrorist attack ever conducted.
The 9/11 attacks sparked international outrage in some white European countries, that’s it.
All other countries either didn’t care or celebrated. Including Israel.
Israel is correctly considered an enemy by most members of the regime I’d assume given that Israel tried and is still trying to turn the country into a failed state, but I don’t think that translates into beef with Jews. Iran has a small but not nonexistent Jewish population and at least officially they don’t have a problem with Jews. Besides, the idea that the regime in Iran is a guarantor for conflict and not fucking Netanyahu (or his major competitor who is also a “security” hawk) is frankly laughable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_by_country#Iran
Their allies motto is:“God is great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse the Jews, Victory to Islam”
And whats Israels motto? Isnt it “may your village burn” as they jump up and down or beat old ladies, children, aid workers and journalists to death? Or something about “kill every Amalek”, where Amalek is whoever they say on a day to day basis?
Israel will reep what it has sown and thats israels problem. We owe them nothing and never did. They have wildly interfered in US poliitics and are guilty of a massive amount of spying and theft in the US. They should feel extremely lucky we dont initiate military action against them.
Okay TIL. The article about Jews in Iran paints a somewhat better picture.
It’s a very difficult situation with both(many) sides appearing willing the influence the facility and bias of the news cycle.
I would generally advise listening to many, expert sources that are extremely factual and try to understand and highlight motives and goals. A one sided view usually is tainted by propaganda. Even the Russian war of expansion/aggression against Ukraine has sensible motives for the people in charge.
Or don’t. Better for the mentals. Just distrust everyone, in particular the people railing against Jews. A lot of people still harbor deeply antisemitic sentiment below a veneer of factual criticism of Israel. Islamophobia is a giant problem too, but people are more openly hateful there.
I wish I knew a solution to improve the factuality of the conversation on Lemmy and social media at large.
A lot of people still harbor deeply antisemitic sentiment below a veneer of factual criticism of Israel.
You’re absolutely right. Which is one more reason why it’s important that the left acts strongly against the Israeli state, based on a principled commitment against genocide and apartheid, instead of leaving the right to occupy that space and allowing them to redirect legitimate grievances into antisemitism.
All the reputable experts say israel is committing genocide
I did not contest that.
Israel motto is the whole Middle East is our and we will exterminate you all whatever you resist or not
I didn’t agree or disagree with that motto. If you consider the eradication of Israel to be the only path that’s… Not ok but what can I do about that.
Also that’s not really the motto of Israel. You are mixing accusations with fact. Their Realpolitik does give worry and is genocidal in part, but that’s not really the point I was trying to make.
That’s Israel’s motto. Everybody knows about greater Israel, and Israel is already executing that plan. They are continuing the genocide in Gaza; they are still terror-bombing Lebanon. Furthermore, they are constantly attacking Syria (which hasn’t shot a single bullet at Israel since the fall of Al-Assad): they are already threatening Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am_Yisrael_Chai
Am Yisrael Chai (Hebrew: עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי [am jisʁaˈʔel χaj] ⓘ; lit. ‘The People of Israel Live’)
That does not translate to what you are zealously claiming. Your claims about terror bombing and constant attacks on Syria overplay the facts. You are spreading misinformation and may be a victim of said misinformation.
They did bomb and attack both Syria and Lebanon, but not in a deeply terroristic mindset at large. They appear to be in the process of ceding control to the Lebanese government. It’s a grand old mess.
God gave this land to us; we were promised it 3000 years ago. That is Israel’s real motto. The idf terrorists go into Syrian land and kidnap civilians, why is that not considered terrorism? They are so prepared to give back control to Lebanon by killing Lebanese soldiers?
- Yoav Gallant (Defense Minister): “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.” (October 9, 2023)
- Yoav Gallant (Defense Minister): “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything. If it doesn’t take one day, it will take a week. It will take weeks or even months, we will reach all places.” (October 10, 2023)
- Yoav Gallant (Defense Minister): “What we can do in Gaza, we can also do in Beirut.” (November 11, 2023)
- Benjamin Netanyahu (Prime Minister): “Gaza is the city of evil, we will turn all the places in which Hamas deploys and hides into ruins.” (October 7, 2023)
- Benjamin Netanyahu (Prime Minister): “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.” (October 28, 2023)
- Benjamin Netanyahu (Prime Minister): “You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering like we see in Gaza.” (October 8, 2024)
- Isaac Herzog (President of Israel): “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true, this rhetoric about civilians being not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true.” (October 12, 2023)
- Itamar Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security): “To be clear, when we say that Hamas should be destroyed, it also means those who celebrated, those who supported, and those who handed out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.” (November 11, 2023)
- Itamar Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security): “We must encourage the voluntary emigration of the residents of Gaza. We must clear land and resettle the Gaza Strip.” (January 2024)
- Bezalel Smotrich (Finance Minister): “We need to deal a blow that has not been seen in 50 years and take down Gaza… There are 2 million Nazis in Gaza.” (November 2023)
- Bezalel Smotrich (Finance Minister): “It may be just and moral to starve 2 million Gazans to death until our hostages are returned, but the world won’t let us.” (August 2024)
- Bezalel Smotrich (Finance Minister): “Lebanon will be flattened. We will hit Beirut with full force, there are no immunity zones.” (September 2024)
- Israel Katz (Minister of Energy / Foreign Minister / Defense Minister): “Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened, and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home.” (October 12, 2023)
- Israel Katz (Minister of Energy / Foreign Minister / Defense Minister): “All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately. We will win. They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.” (October 13, 2023)
- Israel Katz (Minister of Energy / Foreign Minister / Defense Minister): “We will strike Lebanon with full force until total victory… there will be no ceasefire that leaves Beirut intact.” (Late 2024)
- Amihai Eliyahu (Minister of Heritage): “The northern Gaza Strip is more beautiful than ever. Blowing up and flattening everything is a delight for the eyes.” (November 2023)
- Amihai Eliyahu (Minister of Heritage): Asked in a radio interview if an atomic bomb should be dropped on Gaza: “That’s one way.” (November 5, 2023)
- Galit Distel-Atbaryan (Former Information Minister / Member of Knesset): “Invest this energy in one thing: Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence and try to enter Egyptian territory. Or they will die… Gaza should be erased.” (November 1, 2023)
- Nir Barkat (Minister of Economy): “Israel will wipe them off the face of the earth… We are going to target them, and we are saying to innocent civilians: don’t give cover.” (October 2023)
- Shlomo Karhi (Minister of Communications): “Gaza will be leveled. Its residents will be scattered to the four corners of the earth.” (October 2023)
- Eli Cohen (Minister of Energy & Infrastructure): “Gaza City itself should be exactly like Rafah, which we turned into a city of ruins.” (August 2025)
- Nissim Vaturi (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): “Burn Gaza now, nothing less!” (November 2023)
- Nissim Vaturi (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): “We have one common goal: erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth… I don’t think there are any innocent people there now.” (January 2024)
- Nissim Vaturi (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): Describing Palestinian men in Gaza as “scoundrels and subhumans” who should be eliminated. (2025)
- Ariel Kallner (Likud MP): “Nakba to the enemy now! Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join!” (October 7, 2023)
- Revital “Tally” Gotliv (Likud MP): “Jericho Missile! Jericho Missile! Strategic alert. Before considering the introduction of forces. Doomsday weapon! This is my opinion.” (October 9, 2023)
- Revital “Tally” Gotliv (Likud MP): “Flatten Gaza. Without mercy! This time, there is no room for mercy!” (October 2023)
- Moshe Feiglin (Former Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): “There is one and only solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, without nuclear weapons.” (October 2023)
- Moshe Feiglin (Former Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): “Gaza should become Dresden… create a human wave toward Egypt.” (October 2023)
- Meirav Ben-Ari (Yesh Atid MP): “The children in Gaza brought it upon themselves.” (October 2023)
- Limor Son Golem-Har (Otzma Yehudit MP): “Do not leave a child there; expel all the remaining ones at the end, so that they will not have a resurrection… Erase Gaza.” (Late 2023)
- Zvika Fogel (Otzma Yehudit MP): “A weak Gaza creates a strong Israel. A destroyed Gaza creates a safer Israel.” (November 2023)
- Boaz Bismuth (Likud MP): “Cruelty is necessary in order to ensure our survival.” (October 2023)
- Amit Halevi (Likud MP): “There should be no civilian population in northern Gaza… total clearing of the area.” (December 2023)
- Yitzhak Kroizer (Otzma Yehudit MP): “The Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is only one sentence, and that is death.” (November 2023)
- Keti Shitrit (Likud MP): “Flatten Gaza… do not leave anyone there.” (November 2023)
- Avigdor Lieberman (Yisrael Beiteinu Leader / Former Defense Minister): “There are no innocents in Gaza, everyone is connected to Hamas.” (October 2023)
- Amichai Chikli (Minister of Diaspora Affairs): Suggested creating a “buffer zone” in Southern Lebanon and clearing all local populations from the border region. (2024)
- Ghassan Alian (Head of COGAT): “Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water, there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell.” (October 10, 2023)
- Major General Giora Eiland (Former Head of National Security Council): “Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist… Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.” (October 2023)
- Major General Giora Eiland (Former Head of National Security Council): “Who are the ‘poor’ women of Gaza? They are all the mothers, sisters, and wives of Hamas murderers… Severe epidemics in the south of Gaza will bring victory closer.” (November 19, 2023)
- Aharon Haliva (Former Head of Military Intelligence): Stated that 50 Palestinians should be killed for every Israeli killed on October 7, “regardless of whether they are children or women.” (Published August 2025)
- Yaron Finkelman (Head of IDF Southern Command): “Our maneuver will be long, difficult, and intense… we will defeat them completely until there is no trace left.” (November 2023)
- Ori Gordin (Head of IDF Northern Command): “We must be prepared to enter in maneuver to Lebanon… to destroy everything that poses a threat.” (September 2024)
- Brigadier General Dan Goldfus: “We will crush them completely… Gaza will never look the same.” (October 2023)
- Ezra Yachin (95-year-old IDF Reservist / Educational Speaker): “Be triumphant and finish them off and don’t leave anyone behind. Erase the memory of them. Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live.” (October 2023)
- Yinnon Magal (IDF Reservist & Media Personality): “Erase the seed of Amalek… The entire Gaza Strip should be emptied and levelled flat.” (December 2023)
- David Azoulai (Head of Metula Council): “The entire Gaza Strip should be emptied and leveled flat, just like in Auschwitz. Let it become a museum.” (December 2023)
- David Azoulai (Head of Metula Council): “Tell everyone in Gaza to go to the beaches. Navy ships should load them on to the shores of Lebanon.” (December 2023)
- David Azoulai (Head of Metula Council, on Southern Lebanon): “Destroy all the villages… They are not villages, they are terrorist hubs.” (2024)
