I hate that this is the debate we’re having now
I also hate that I’m feeding into the NYT’s lazy and transparent attempt to undo their previous partisanship with new opposite partisanship like those two things cancel out and add up to journalism
But what the hell, if that’s where we’re at, this is a relevant data point about the landscape
I’ll keep saying it: Joe Biden has been the best president of my lifetime. Everything good he did will be undone if Donald Trump wins, and unless the Democrat strategy hugely shifts (up to and including a new candidate) then Donald Trump is nearly certain to win.
~Fuck yeah~ (Edit: I had misread the last part of the comment I was replying to)
If he’s too old and someone else is better, then let’s do someone else. Figure out the plan, rock and roll with it, and get moving. Maybe Biden will or won’t be on board for that but that’s on him at that point.
But this idea that in response to a transparently partisan hit job, Biden is supposed to wander away from the campaign a few seconds before the motorcycle hits the jump-ramp and hope the most incompetent single faction in Washington puts together a last-minute clutch plan for victory - when they JUST DEMONSTRATED that they are gullible to bad ideas being force-fed to them by their enemies, and are in all likelihood going to bumble around trying to nominate Michelle Obama, or suddenly blame the whole mess on Biden for resigning, or whatever the fuck they do, for a while before finally just putting Kamala in place and watching her crash and burn because few of the problems Biden was facing were caused by anything about Biden - is absurd, and Biden is right to laugh it out of the room and continue campaigning.
Figure out an actual plan which you can pitch in all these anguished op-eds, or start trying to poach his delegates to usurp him, or fuckin do SOMETHING other than running around doing your best to lose the election
I think the main issue is that it would be much, much better if Biden stepped aside willingly. As in, better enough that it will significantly impact election results. I think this is largely a pressure campaign to get him to do that.
The problem is that many of us believe that Biden is our best hope even still.
If we had a strong candidate that we felt could rally the party this late in the game, that would be one thing. But IMO, we don’t. Every potential candidate has major hurdles that would take more than 4 months to smooth out.
Newsom is already the Right’s boogeyman. They targeted him years ago and made him the next Hillary Clinton because they saw him as a threat. I think he’s a generally strong Dem candidate for the future, but the Right has managed to brute force negativity to his name that it’s going to take some time to fight.
Harris just isn’t well liked. She’s a bit of a dead fish candidate. I have no idea what she has been up to, all interviews I’ve seen of her, she holds her cards very close to her chest, and because of it, comes off bland and uninteresting. I do not see her doing well against Trump at this point.
Whitmer just isn’t recognizable enough at large. She’d need more time to establish herself.
Honestly, despite the very legitimate concerns with Biden after the debate and following appearances, he’s still the strongest candidate IMO. There could have been stronger candidates had he stepped down from the beginning, but the time left is insufficient for the front runner candidates, even if we picked one today.
I understand that a lot of people still think Biden is the best foot forward, but he’s losing right now and nobody has been able to even give me an outline of how that could get turned around. I can think of no realistic strategy for getting the concerns around his mental fitness to go away.
You only flip the board when you’re losing, and we’re losing. Yes, switching candidates is a risk, but polls suggest it’s a viable, calculated one.
he’s losing right now
He’s not. He’s in a statistical tie in the polls, even when looking at swing states. And that assumes the polls are accurate.
Just yesterday I got a text message to “take a poll”. I’m not clicking on any link texted to me, so I won’t show up in any of those polls. Also, I don’t pick up any numbers that I don’t know. They’re 90% scams and the rest are wrong numbers.
There’s no way for a pollster to get my opinion because they rely on methods from last century.
I hope you’re right, but if the margin between the polls and election day is similar to how it was in 2016 and 2020 then Biden is about to get blown out.
I can think of no realistic strategy for getting the concerns around his mental fitness to go away.
Ranked Choice voting would give people more options, giving us more chances to beat trump.
I think that’s a fair opinion that I just disagree with. Right now, we’re in a very awkward situation that doesn’t have much precedent to rely on, so no one really has much to rely on besides their instincts in public opinion, which is extremely unreliable.
I’ll say that I personally disregard polling out of hand because I personally find it extremely unreliable, even when the polls are conducted with the intent of impartiality. When I also don’t believe is commonly the case.
that doesn’t have much precedent to rely on,
Oh we do have enough precedent: Donald Trump as a president.
I’ll vote for a potato if it’s our only choice to keep that deplorable from stepping into the WH again.
I meant about dropping the presumptive nominee last minute when there wasn’t a real primary to have a 2nd place with momentum to fallback on
but he’s losing right now
Nope.
If trump were forced out as candidate, then he’d go thermonuclear and destroy the Republicans.
If Biden were forced out as candidate, he’d get a heads up and claim it was his idea and work with the party to transition.
There’s no way he’d leave kicking and screaming, though at the same time unless it was a done deal, he’s going to claim to be 100% in, cause the second he starts to show any doubt, he’s already destroyed his campaign.
If he does this, we’ll lose to Trump.
Google “professor who correctly predicted almost all presidential elections.”
Curious and not knowledgeable about the politic system of the USA but Harris appears to be the current VP. Shouldn’t she be entirely in the loop? This would substitute perfectly; And Biden could still be VP if he is (and to me apparently he does) in for the purpose of the American citizen?
I had this thought and saw something today about the election were Biden-Harris was mentioned. FINALLY I thought. Is there something I am missing?
Obama implemented ACA and a lot of people benefit from it without even knowing it.
He could have done much more if it wasn’t because he was black. Yes, I said it. The GOP was relentless against him, to the point of even shutting the government twice. I will never forgive them for it.
Joe Biden has been the best president of my lifetime.
Are you four years old?
Who has been the best president of your lifetime, tuna?
I completely missed that “Tuna” was involved with the actual username of this person you were talking to. I thought you were just being forthright and jocular with them. I like my version better.
Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
You think Trump was better?
Some of the shills were swearing to me the other day that they were around in the 1990s and they and all their friends were super excited about how Bill Clinton balanced the federal budget, and then Obama was this big swing to the right, which Biden was a continuation of, like light-years to the right of the progressive sea change that Clinton had been…
My brother in Christ I was around activists in the 90s and the Obama years and I can promise you that that’s not how it played out. Depending on your age and how much you know about Biden’s economic accomplishments, Biden is either the best president the country has had in your lifetime or the second best. Full stop. For, I think, almost anyone who’s of an age to be realistically on Lemmy. The only way to make it any different than that is to go all the way back to JFK, and then still on top not to be aware of what’s been happening to income inequality in the last few years.
Clinton was an absolutely rubbish president. For all the shit I give Obama he was a far better president than Clinton - but, as someone born during HW’s presidency it is depressing that Biden is indeed the best president I’ve ever lived under.
I don’t care who the nominee is, I’m voting for them.
Yeah, I don’t get why the dem coalition thinks it’d be sooo difficult to rally around someone else. The base would vote a corpse before trump (rightly so), so what’s the problem? Are the swing voters not gonna have time in 4 months to make up their minds? Those people have goldfish brain anyway.
I think Sanders just saved Biden’s campaign.
I have my misgivings as well and I was leaning towards replacing Biden. I read the entire op/ed though and Sanders makes a very vehement defense for Biden. If Sanders thinks Biden is the best chance against Trump, then I’m ready to circle the wagons.
It irrelevant at this point. Trump just won.
Nah, calm down.
Jesus fucking Christ…what does it take to prove to Democrats that they are going to fucking lose?
He’s up 8 points before the shooting. That pic of him bloody and pumping his fist is all over EVERYTHING right now.
This election was over in the first 10 minutes of the debate. This is absolute victory at this point, and I think we lose Congress too, in a bad way.
If you’re not freaking out…I don’t know man…I just don’t know.
I’m not freaking out. Let’s figure out what we need to do. It’d be more of a problem if it were a week ahead of the elections.
If we gotta get violent to protect the ones we love, so be it. Till that time, keep it cool and think.
Good to know you’re easily emotionally manipulated. Just have a listen to the MSM and bam it’s over for you. I honestly don’t know why everyone is saying that this incident means Trump is going to win. He’s a racist, extremist, criminal, dictator wanna be which is exactly why this happened. And it doesn’t change who he is or his plans to tear America to the bones and remake it so he can exploit it for himself.
Americans have the memory of a goldfish, by Nov this will be forgotten, but Trump will continue to be Trump and his ties to Project 2025 and his Agenda 47 and how he wants to use the presidency for revenge and personal gain will continue to be put in the spotlight. As long as the media stops sucking his dick that is.
The election is over. Period…he’s up 8 points, and I’m betting by Monday 12 points.
You understand his base is voting FOR project 2025 and Agenda 47. That’s what they want.
I’m betting by Monday 12 points.
Will you bet with me? We can use fivethirtyeight.com as the agreed source; just whatever national poll gets posted there first, starting as of Monday morning. I’ll bet any amount up to $200.
You’re one of two things, a Russian/CCP/NK/etc troll pushing for people to give up on voting, or a media manipulated hysterical doom poster. Both of which are helpful to Trump.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Despite my disagreements with him on particular issues, he has been the most effective president in the modern history of our country and is the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump — a demagogue and pathological liar.
The United States should not provide Benjamin Netanyahu’s right-wing extremist government with another nickel as it continues to create one of the worst humanitarian disasters in modern history.
At a time when people were terrified about the future, the president and those of us who supported him in Congress put Americans back to work, provided cash benefits to desperate parents and protected small businesses, hospitals, schools and child care centers.
After decades of talk about our crumbling roads, bridges and water systems, we put more money into rebuilding America’s infrastructure than ever before — which is projected to create millions of well-paying jobs.
At a time when the billionaires have never had it so good and when the United States is experiencing virtually unprecedented income and wealth inequality, over 60 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, real weekly wages for the average worker have not risen in over 50 years, 25 percent of seniors live each year on $15,000 or less, we have a higher rate of childhood poverty than almost any other major country, and housing is becoming more and more unaffordable — among other crises.
If Mr. Biden and his supporters focus on these issues — and refuse to be divided and distracted — the president will rally working families to his side in the industrial Midwest swing states and elsewhere and win the November election.
The original article contains 1,073 words, the summary contains 266 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The only thing it convinced me of was that France has a better system.
Archive: https://archive.is/sCMT5
Biden will lose. This is a critical juncture, just like 2016, and the Dems are going to fuck it up again, and then blame the voters for not voting when they had every opportunity as a party to correct their shit and not put a person who actually can’t form coherent sentences as their candidate.
If this is the best they can do, then the party needs major reforms. They are handing this to Trump.
Who do you think should replace Biden?
I am holding a graph of poll numbers comparing Biden with other Democratic nominees vs Trump, which I plan to send you once you have made your selection
Why wait? Just post the graph now.
Yeah that’s fair
Not to say replacing Biden is automatically a bad idea. I am mostly reacting to the idea that that’ll solve all the problems and we should just do it right away and not think about exactly with who or what will happen next and if you have questions about the plan you’re the enemy (and also, for some reason, what seems to often go alongside it which is saying a bunch of stuff about Biden which objectively isn’t true).
There is a person that Joe Biden specifically picked as his understudy, who is ready to step into the job at a moments notice. Why not her?
You will reply with a poll that says that she won’t do any better, but all those polls are working with a hypothetical. If Harris becomes the nominee, and that hypothetical becomes reality, I think the polls will show a real bump as well. She’ll lose about 20 or 30 votes from the ACAB posters here, yet gain tens of thousands more from people who might be on the fence about voting at all. And the only thing standing between us and Fascism is a few thousand votes from the right zip codes.
So you’re just straight-up announcing your intention to immediately dismiss any answer you’re given.
No, I am warning them that I plan to show the poll numbers comparing Biden to whoever they select. Dismissing is different from debunking with evidence. But yes, I plan to debunk whatever they say, assuming it’s realistic enough to be found in a list of even some pretty outlandish Democratic possibilities.
Well, you intend to paste a graph that doesn’t take into account that no potential candidate other than Biden has campaigned at all, and that despite Biden’s campaigning, his numbers are still shit.
Moving goalposts is good clean fun, isn’t it? I am finished though. I have chased them around for as long as I wanted to.
You’re taking advantage of a catch-22. No one’s numbers can go up until they campaign, and no one’s gonna campaign unless Biden steps aside.
Their numbers will go down after the Russians and right-wing media launch their anti-campaign against the new nominee. It’s much easier to smear someone than for them to get a positive message out. Especially if you can lie and not be held accountable.
All the socialist’s heads just collectively exploded into a mushroom cloud of abject confusion.
Bernie can go fuck himself, he sold his soul for a committee chair position.
I was curious where you were coming from with this… like if you had an actual point you might care to make or you were just being an asshole because you are Very Angry ™ for reasons.
Definitely the latter. Maybe posting here isn’t the best for your mental health.
I’m coming from a place where he talked one thing and ended up siding with the opposite, the very thing that he claimed to be against
Hey, quick question:
- There are 229 accounts in Lemmy that have used the phrase “Democratic Party” more than once in the last 6 months or so.
- There are 188 that have used the phrase “Republican Party” more than once.
- There are 25 that have used the phrase “Democrat Party” more than once
So that does kind of make sense… “Democrat Party” is something I pretty much never hear outside of conservative circles. In most of the left it’s un heard of. It always sounds really weird to me and I don’t think it would ever occur to me to use it. It’s not surprising that it’s so rare to hear it on Lemmy.
So what I’m wondering is why there’s so much overlap between the users who do use that very unusual phrasing and the ones who are SUPER left. Like really left. Like so left that they’re mad at Joe Biden and even Bernie SANDERS isn’t left enough for them, and they want people not to support those people. Because of course they’re not left enough.
Any thoughts on it? You’re on that list, both the using that phrase part and the being super left part. Can you remember where in your reading you might have picked up that phrasing and started using it?
You let your anger own you. I’m sure you can do better.
I’m not angry. I just call out shit when I see it, and I don’t have any form of filters for it
Or, maybe if someone with an excellent political trackrecord, a good moral compass and way more experience in the matter in gis left toe than you tells you something… it is time for you to listen instead of opening your noise hole.
Yeah, he gave up that good moral compass when he told us all to vote for Biden, the exact same thing that he has rallied against his entire career
