The novel and untested approach has been introduced by Democratic lawmakers in at least four states.
Democratic legislators mostly in blue states are attempting to fight back against Donald Trump’s efforts to withhold funding from their states with bills that aim to give the federal government a taste of its own medicine.
The novel and untested approach — so far introduced in Connecticut, Maryland, New York and Wisconsin — would essentially allow states to withhold federal payments if lawmakers determine the federal government is delinquent in funding owed to them. Democrats in Washington state said they are in the process of drafting a similar measure.
These bills still have a long way to go before becoming law, and legal experts said they would face obstacles. But they mark the latest efforts by Democrats at the state level to counter what they say is a massive overreach by the Trump administration to cease providing federal funding for an array of programs that have helped states pay for health care, food assistance and environmental protections.
This sounds like dissolving the union with extra steps ngl
And?
Blue states can only continue supporting red states that bite the hand that feeds for so long.
And in this case, biting the hand that feeds involves removing human rights.
So yeah. It’s time to balkanize. Blue states will be fine. Red states can suffer and die for supporting a traitor and his treasonous party.
Honestly, we need to dissolve the union at this point. It’s just common sense.
Look, it’s time for a reality check. When a nation’s political culture becomes this dysfunctional, there’s no bringing it back, not without some massive bloody civil war that leaves millions dead. What they don’t teach you in school is that every written law or constitution is ultimately meaningless. The Constitution does not enforce itself and neither does any law. They all require a certain amount of good-faith interpretation. It is always possible to come up with a strained bad-faith interpretation of any law that will allow you to do whatever you want. But in a healthy political system, this doesn’t happen. Both sides practice restraint and realize that their overreach will be answered by overreach on the other side.
But if you lose that? The nation is effectively shattered. The United States, as a functioning democracy, is already dead. It’s zombie corpse is just limping along. The president is openly defying the laws passed by Congress. The Supreme Court is openly corrupt, openly partisan, and ignoring the plain language of the constitution. It’s all just might makes right now, and both parties view the other as fundamentally wicked and illegitimate.
Once your politics have decayed this much, there is no bringing it back. We need to peacefully dissolve the United States. Will it be easy? No. But we also shouldn’t let one of our core national character flaws - American exceptionalism, blind us to the possibilities that exist. Plenty of nations have peacefully dissolved before. And they find ways to negotiate the hard issues like dividing assets, debts, obligations, military forces, etc. This has been done before, and it can be done again.
When this comes up, the “umm aktually” crowd also comes out of the woodwork. They’ll point out that there’s no actual constitutional mechanism to do this. These people are blind or have been asleep the last six months. You would think they would learn by now that all it takes to do something is that there not be anyone there to stop you.
We should grant all 50 states full independence. Just disband the existing federal government entirely. Let the states then come back together in whatever new nation or nations they want to form. How can this be done legally? Simple. Someone just needs to run for president on the platform of national dissolution, saying, “I’ll grant all 50 states independence. I’ll fire every federal employee, and I will not use any military force to stop all the states from seceding.” And then they get elected and simply do that. Congress or SCOTUS can complain all they want; it won’t matter. That candidate if elected would have an overwhelming political mandate, and there would be no way to stop them. Some may whine that it’s unconstitutional, but who cares? It’s pretty obvious by now that the Constitution is broken, obsolete, and no longer worth respecting. We’re walking away from that broken obsolete piece of trash. We can do better.
I’m in.
Because you’re right. Once Pandora’s Box is open, that’s it.
The Constitution has been nullified by not being adhered to. Our branches and Congress have ceded their power to what is effectively a king. Our Supreme Court justices have been proven to have taken bribes and are passing rulings completely in opposition to the Constitution without providing reasoning. The bar for president has been lowered to gutter-level. And a significant portion of our populace has been radicalized by lies from propaganda networks.
It’s over. There is no coming back from this. You can’t legislate your way back to reality because we’ll never have the numbers necessary in Congress to make it happen and the president has been given the powers of a king.
It’s balkanization for the Un-united States or total collapse across the board as we all cling to each other as we drown. I’m voting for balkanization.
I know it’s something that’s going to take people a lot of time to wrap their minds around, but the United States as we’ve always known it is over. This is what happens when you let conservatives have too much power.
Un-united
There’s a word for that - divided.
Also, +1 for dissolving the Union. We had a good run, it’s over.
It need not even be over permanently. Many nations have come together, broken apart, just to come back together again in the future. Look at how many times China has gone through that cycle. Look at German dissolution and reunification. I imagine some time apart would do the nation and its various political factions a lot of good. And probably in a generation or two, a movement would likely develop to try to bring things back together again. The idea of united America isn’t going anywhere. But our present form of government just isn’t what is needed to produce that unity. The Constitution is a collection of compromises meant to satisfy the needs of the 1780s. Perhaps in the 2080s, a new attempt can be made, a new set of compromises forged, and the nation rebuilt. If nothing else, an EU-style customs and open boarder union between the states would likely be implemented even from the time of first dissolution.
Well, the US as we know it is over. I’d certainly never trust having a federal government with as much power as it does currently again, reunited or no.
So true. What we are experiencing now is the “new normal”, and electing Joe Biden proved that we can’t restore sanity just by voting a democrat in office. Every time we get a conservative from now on, we should expect more of this wacky Trumpian bullshit, even if Trump isn’t at the helm.
There are, as you said, only two way of actually fixing the problem. All-out civil war, which nobody really wants and may not culminate in actually winning, or untethering ourselves from the minority party currently running the failed state by seceding, preferably peacefully. That presents it’s own unique challenges and problems, but it’s by far a better solution than continuing to course correct the sinking ship like we are now. We will only drown with the captain and his crew of morons who intend to go down with the ship.
I don’t want to be in a union ruled by a mad king. BTW, I joined the California National Party, check them out: Vote CNP.
They are running a candidate for the California governor’s election next year. California Democrats are weak AF, and have no idea that the mad king is about to rape them. CNP wants California to peacefully leave the union, but know that it may not be so peaceful.
CNP wants California to peacefully leave the union, but know that it may not be so peaceful.
California needs to create and fund a state militia. We need to convince Oregon and Washington to do the same and then have those militias train and work together.
The Constitution allows for militias. Not that the Constitution matters anymore. So we should do it anyway.
I have been trying to convey that to more senior party members. They take their inspiration from the Scottish National Party, which has worked nonviolently to regain some form of autonomy. I have said though that we may need to consider the Irish way. But even they went the peaceful route in the end, not having gained much.
My thought is America is a warmongering nation. It “won” the west that way, and it will not easily give up the west without murdering millions of people. They will definitely attempt a genocide of Natives, Latinos and Blacks that live in the west coast states.
As an Englishman, the IRA were fairly critical to the political results. They kept the UK government from running roughshod over the Irish political parties.
The IRA proved they were willing to cross critical lines (bombs aimed at large scale civilian damage on English soil etc). They also demonstrated restraint. They often provided warnings ahead of time. They focused on disruption not casualties. The underlying threat was clear however. If you (UK government) escalate too far, it’s simple to switch from a bomb aimed at destroying a high street of shops, to one aimed at killing a high street of Christmas shoppers.
The end result was that Irish politics stayed in the public eye, and the government took the safer path of negotiating in good faith. No-one was particularly happy with the results, but no-one was excessively unhappy with them either. Often the best you can hope for.
In short, the credible threat is required to keep all parties honest. Most smart governments will see an escalating trail of protests as part of that. Unfortunately, the current US leadership doesn’t seem that smart.
No, they are not. I hope though that they are stupid enough to actually welcome letting California go, because it’s full of commies, trans, brown people, etc.
That sounds like the [insert state name] national guard with extra steps ngl.
Ofc without DoD funding.
I’m down to call it whatever. No DoD funding means no adherence to their bullshit.
Let those welfare queen red states pull themselves up by their own bootstrap
Sounds like the beginnings of a future civil war if those states actually follow through. It sounds like the right move though, I hope a bunch of blue states follow up on this!
I hope a bunch of fema deprived red states follow up on this!
Virginia: We can play this game too, democrats! We’re keeping our $100B to ourselves this year! Can we still get that $200B you send us each year though?
States rights have and always will be a double edged sword. Usually it’s a non issue because at worst you have representation. Sadly it seems like ours has gone missing now and we all need to stop what we are doing and go find it. Violently if necessary but hopefully as a last resort. Or maybe just 2nd place.
Honestly, that’s probably the most effective thing that can be done.
In business, where it really hurts, is in the money. Hit them where it really matters.
If a company becomes too large to manage and kits subsidiaries make individual profits, some making profit and others at a loss, you divest. You sell off the crap companies. Makes sense to me. They say Trump wants to run the US like a business, right?
Does it really matter though?
Seems like the lost revenue would just be made up through borrowing / deficit spending. Worried this is another whiff of a move. Its not like I have a better solution; and I wish the states doing this the best of luck in addressing their finding issues, but I don’t expect this to move the needle significantly.
Secede. Whatever happens in the US after this administration, there is no repairing the damage that has been done without violence. There is no restoring the Constitution, no repairing the rule of law, no restoration of democracy, no restoring affordable living, no curbing the power of billionaire oligarchs, no path to freedom, liberty, or sanity.
Escape is the only option that has a chance at minimizing bloodshed. Individual escape by emigrating, but what countries would want American expats now? so many are following the US’c corrupt lead. Special privileges for the rich, slavery for the serfdom.
Collective escape via secession and the creation of new independent countries is the only sane path forward now. Alternatively annexation could work, but I don’t see Canada or Mexico going out of their way to save Americans, for reasons that should be obvious.
So you don’t see Canada putting any effort into saving… California or the north east coast?
Let the red states have their trumpistan, I’ll lobby my new Canadian representative to veto aid packages all day long eh.
Canada is three mining companies in a trench coat.
It’s both not as liberal and not as nice as it has a reputation for being.
If Cascadia has a chance, it isn’t with Canada.
No. Canada is a small country and can’t actually absorb the millions of people that acquiring US states would entail. California alone has a population similar to that of all of Canada. The US West Coast, if it joined Canada, would suddenly represent the majority of the Canadian population. Canada could absorb a single low population state, like Alaska. But asking Canadians to absorb large chunks of the US is asking them to make existing Canadians a political minority in their own country. Is doesn’t make sense. The US West Coast can simply be its own independent country.
Lmao no and why would they? It’s not canada.
I guess a big difficulty in the way of secession could be that it was denied to Texas in the last 200 years. This attitude carries a certain momentum. That might hinder blue states from seceding as well. What do you think?
What about the current administration gives you the impression historical precedent matters anymore?
fair point that you’re making here.
I’m sorry, but fuck Texas and it’s “denied secession.”
The American South plays victim every chance it can in its lost cause mythos and “look at how poor picked on we are” when they spent years pushing federal requirements like the Fugitive Slave Act on the non-slave states and got pissy when they couldn’t overtake the numbers of slave states over non-slave states so they wanted to take their ball and go home, but the North wouldn’t let them lea… no… wait… they fucking shot first. “War of northern aggression” indeed.
The mess we’re in is the culture that created the civil war originally can’t get over themselves and have mythologized themselves into the victims when they were the assholes causing the problem.
-Signed a southerner who is FUCKING sick of hearing how Texas never signed to rejoin the union every time he’s near at least three Texans.
ok sorry i’m not that familiar with US history, i was just pointing it out.
Understandable and I admit I kinda went off. If you don’t know much on US history, you’re in the same position of many MANY people in the US South.
Before the current Trump situation, there was the statues being taken down and people crying about destroying history… there were 24 states that put up Confederate statues, many of them during the fight for Civil Rights for the black citizens. Only 11 states seceded.
One of the biggest arguments the South loves to portray is “States Rights” IE: The south seceded not because of slavery but overreach of the Federal Government. The trouble with this theory is (beyond 7 states declarations of secession directly saying it was about slavery) that Fugitive Slave Acts where the southern states forced abolitionist states to allow bounty hunters to come in and round up “escaped property” (slaves that escaped)… which they weren’t exactly too picky, so many who were born free in abolitionist states got enslaved. When looking at ICE and the attitude on sanctuary cities… history has an unfortunate attitude of rhyming, just as the Republicans like to scream States Rights but they’re loving the lever of the federal government to crack down. But also on the states rights, the CSA constitution itself
Article 1 Sec. 9 (4)
No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
Article IV Sec2 (1)
The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.
(3)
The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.
There’s a reason why one of the constant responses is “A states right to what?” because their federal government in fact denied states rights to outlaw slavery.
The other myth I brought up is the “War of Northern Aggression”, it’s really just plain and on the tin, the Union was the aggressors in the war. Thing is the slave holders were trying to rapidly take over non-state territories to get them in the union to make them slave states to try to outnumber the abolitionist states, this is how Texas formed (when they stole the land from Mexico) and they tried to do it in formation of Kansas… but that got to a point called “Bleeding Kansas.” Look up John Brown, that alone is a wild story. Well Lincoln got elected and they panicked that he would stop expansion of slavery… he was famous on not even trying to end slavery, whatever he could do to keep the union together. The biggest thing was he wasn’t going to invade southern states nor end slavery where it was at BUT would use force to maintain possession of federal property that the CSA seized, basically the forts, mints, and customhouses, the rest he was pretty much let them have it, outright even saying if there was no ability for peaceful enforcement of federal law they’d pull US marshals and judges out of those states. Lincoln tried to negotiate with the states. So of course the confederates attacked the Union-held Fort Sumter in South Carolina, then cried “why are we being attacked, we did nothing wrong” for the next 160 years.
So that last part where I was talking about the myths where they cry themselves the victims is the Lost Cause myth that the southerners have adopted for the past century. It’s a combination of above with a doctrine that was summed up well by traitor Clement Evans
If we cannot justify the South in the act of Secession, we will go down in History solely as a brave, impulsive but rash people who attempted in an illegal manner to overthrow the Union of our Country.
This comes down to a six part mindset they preach.
- Secession wasn’t about slavery, it was constitutional (this is important for them to argue when being called traitors)
- Slavery is a positive good and the slaves were happy in their positions
- The Confederacy was only defeated because of the North’s number advantage in people resources. This is where the “Lost Cause” comes in.
- The Confederate soldier is to be seen as heroic, knightly, honorable.
- Robert E Lee. Since you don’t know much about US history, that name is more famous than many of our presidents because he was a southern general that the south worships more than Jesus.
- Southern women supported the cause and sacrificed more than the men.
If you live in the South, it’s actually super easy to believe these things because it is inundated in the culture. You cannot avoid it. You grow up hearing “It’s heritage, not hate” a lot by people who carry the “confederate flag” (which is revisionism too because the longest running national flags of the CSA either looked too close to the US flag which lead to their own people shooting at each other, or the “stainless banner” which they changed months before they surrendered because hilariously it being a white flag looked like a flag of surrender) and the worst part is, many of the people believe it because the history isn’t taught well. I mean for fucks sake it’s illegal in Texas to teach the truth about the Alamo that it was a part of a bunch of slave traders stealing land from Mexico, but instead it’s the inspirational rally cry “Remember the Alamo!” The parts that made it shaky on the whole Lost Cause myth if you looked at it too hard was the combination of the constant push for the Southern States to figure out a new way to get Jim Crow laws back in, and hearing a constant “The South will rise again” growing up.
But the reason I reacted as harshly as I did, is growing up before we’ve hit this boiling point of Trump This was a common sight and that particular march was about removing it from the state house in South Carolina. I don’t have a better analogy, because there is only one flag to a country that lost that really signifies it… this would be the equivalent of a march of like flags in modern day Germany because one of their national buildings was being ordered to take down the swastika flag that it flies daily.
I would be interested in seeing if this is actually a viable strategy for more wealthy states such as illinois and california because I’m getting tired of the borderline suicidal “they go low, we go high” rhetoric. I know theres things in place to make sure it can’t be done but the current admin isn’t playing by the rules and we can’t win if we keep trying to follow them. We need to start playing hardball with these clowns.
I’m sure Cali is getting sick of paying 80 billion more than they’re supposed to get back, only to have what you get back not even come to you.
I’m honestly surprised that newsom and pritzker haven’t talked about this. Illinois alone is 4% of what the government collects yearly. I think I’m gonna do some more digging into this.
Newsom has mentioned it. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/06/newsom-floats-withholding-federal-taxes-00393386
Oh he has ? Thanks for the link I’ll fs check it out
Laws not mattering anymore works both ways.
This is an economic nightmare
That’s usually what happens when a political nightmare assumes one of the most powerful offices on the planet
Just get divorced already.
Nawh we’re gonna do a Taiwan-style One America policy
Wait wait wait! Lemme get on to the other side of the line so I can live in a blue state. Just 3 more months!
Might be the only way to stop him/gop
I’ve been saying we need to do this since the ass won the election. Nice to see my state finally listened.
California needs to get on this
I’m down for this all across the board. Anything to take his power away.
Honestly, states can change their rules… and enshrine and encourage/incentivise communal ownerships… like Co-ops, B-Corps, etc. in which there is not actual US currency involved but state sponsored services provided with credits (like HC, Agriculture) – people could exchanged things and labor for those credits. Those who are disabled would fall under a social safety net and do some things that they are able to do to acquire credits but on a different level and our collective labor should cover our vulnerable and disabled of every age.
Here. We. Go.
