Democrats have all the spontaneity of the House of Windsor. Or, closer to home, they’re closer to what Republicans once were, a party that falls in line not in love.
It’s ridiculous that the DNC doesn’t understand this shit depresses turnout.
People want to choose who to vote for, voting for someone you dislike because the other candidate is worse doesn’t get enough voters to comfortably win
Biden is going to fuck around and lose, and the “moderates” are going to blame it on progressives (even tho they always show up) and say the 2028 candidate has to be even more rightwing
Or, Biden squeaks out a victory, and the party says that also proves the party needs to go more rightwing
No matter what happens, both parties keep drifting right.
And that reality is why we spend 100s of millions every election, and still barely crack 2/3s turnout.
Meanwhile, back in consensual reality, Biden is the most Progressive president we’ve had in my lifetime in terms of policy actually passed into law.
p.s. I’m never going to block you. It’s far too important to show the rest of the class why you’re wrong.
Maybe you’re just really really young?
Obama was a lot more progressive than Biden, and he left office in 2016?
Obama’s healthcare reform wasn’t perfect, but what has Biden done that you think is more progressive?
Maybe I’m almost 50 & you’re just not aware of what Biden has actually accomplished.
What Progressive laws did Obama get passed in his TWO terms? I’ll start: AHCA & Cash for Clunkers.
What else?
Well, the first article is about things he said he would do…
The second is this:
But that picture has started to change. The House passed a significant piece of legislation Friday and sent it to Biden to sign into law.
I thought if it took a law, Biden had no power? That’s the excuse for him not doing most of his campaign promises.
But here’s a law, and youre giving Biden sole credit for it?
We’re not republicans, we’re not that welcoming of hypocrisy
Oh, ok. You’re just not aware of how our system of government works.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I just recognized your name…
I’ve tried to bock you I don’t know how many times, but I still see your comments, and your post history is blank whether I have you as blocked or not
It’s incredibly annoying because obviously nothing productive is going to come from us talking. Since I apparently can’t block you, can you just block me at least?
I never want to have to talk to you again, and it feels mutual.
But you also keep replying to my comments in different threads, so I’ll probably just have to remember exchanging you with is a giant waste of time. I’d rather just forget you exist
Any democracy based on FPTP voting will trend rightward. It’s a fundamental flaw in the voting system from a game theory perspective. The dynamics of a two party system will always support a good cop/bad cop dominant strategy (think of spoiler candidates, and how we always are faced with the prospect of voting against a bad candidate rather than for a preferable one). Good candidates exist, but our preferences are not a priority inherent to the design of the system.
We would do better with approval voting or Concorcet, but the only way to change the voting system is to get buy-in from the parties to whom it would be certainly fatal.
Except American democracy has existed for longer than this issue…
FDR won in a two party system, sure, the parties instituted term limits to get rid of him, but he won in FPTP.
But the reason both parties drift right is because of the neoliberal movement that’s only been around 30 years.
It’s been working out terribly, but party leadership doesn’t care because there’s more money in being rightwing
Dark money out of politics would alleviate a lot of the issues we’ve been seeing. The voting system is still the game we have to play if we want democracy, and badly designed games are only fun for the winners. An approval vote would get us more broad consensus in leadership, and a return to government based on a shared vision of society, rather than a Congress perpetually locked in a darkly comedic reimagining of the French National Assembly.
But republicans will always be against that, and so will neoliberals.
Doesn’t mean we can’t do it, but we need to wrest control of the Dem party from neoliberals, and primary a bunch of incumbent Dems first.
It’s like climate change, it’s not a quick fix, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying immediately, just that we’re not going to see noticeable results for a long time.
Which is why I feel like I’m insane no one else is losing their shit that NH got their primary taken away for a law only state republicans could have changed. The DNC told NH Dems if they didn’t violate state law, they didn’t get primary delegates. And then followed thru.
It’s not a coincidence NH has been voting progressive in primaries over the party pick.
If they did it this year, what’s stopping them from doing it in 2028?
Without a primary, voters have zero say. And legally the DNC can do whatever they want in a primary, even outright ignoring the result.
If we lose the Dem party, we’re all fucked.
Progressives do not show up to vote. What state are you looking at? Biden is a clear representation of his electorate. If young people actually bothered to vote the landscape would be so much different. The good news is young people are actually starting to be more politically active now.
Edit: you can downvote, but we can also look at the stats. I don’t get this anti-reality sentiment on Lemmy.
2nd edit. Just in case it’s not clear for those needing sources (even though this is extremely researched):
In 2022, younger voters made up a smaller share of the electorate than they did in 2018. In 2022, 36% of voters were under 50, compared with 40% of voters in 2018. Decreased turnout among these more reliably Democratic voters contributed to the GOP’s better performance in November.
Older voters turned out more reliably in both elections – and continued to be largely loyal to Republican candidates. For example, among adults ages 69 and older in 2022
Pew research 2022 election.
If you still believe that, no amount of evidence is going to change your mind bud …
But feel free to keep shouting into the void that you don’t understand it, maybe someone will try and explain it.
What are you talking about? Progressives are the least reliable voting block in the US. This isn’t some speculation, it is a known, well-studied fact. It is the very same fact that leads to the Dems becoming more conservative.
As soon as I’m done explaining nuclear physics to my dog, I’ll get right back to you.
I try to manage my time by putting the easiest tasks first.
I would totally be open to someone other than Biden running… If the DNC (or any party) had actually started promoting and positioning anyone good 2-3 years ago.
It’s too late now. Biden is the guy.
And all the people on the Internet I see whining about how they don’t like the choices available: if you actually want to do anything productive instead of just bitching you need to do the work in advance. Get involved with political organizations, campaigns, etc.
Even looking further ahead to he 2028 elections (assuming the US is still having elections)… Who is the DNC planning on running? Harris is cop who doesn’t excite anyone. AOC is probably too polarizing to get moderate support, and is probably move valuable in Congress right now. Newsome maybe? I hate to throw out celebrities, but it’s happened enough that it’s possible and John Stewart seems like he might just go for it. Heck, even he is 62 right now, so he’d be 66 if he ran in 2028, and 67 by inauguration day.
The DNC doesn’t pick the candidate.
The superdelegates have informed us of how they intend to vote [before the actual election] and we can conclusively call this election for you being wrong about that.
Who did the superdelegates choose to win the 2008 primary?
According to court records they do
Paraphrased
Trump Biden Biden Trump Biden Biden Biden Trump
Trump will not be able to run successful if Biden runs and any faults of Biden will be because of Trump
The time for a challenger to have stepped up to Biden was before the primaries. The only ones who did lost abysmally. You and many like you could have spent your time and effort recruiting and canvassing for someone else. But you didn’t. Instead, you just complain about Biden and have the temerity to say “any faults of Biden will be because of Trump” when you didn’t do a thing to try to get anyone to primary him.
You want to bitch and moan, not help.
Given that the system is heavily skewed toward incumbency, your comment is a bit disingenuous. We both know that the DNC intended Biden to run. He had the advantage of thier coffers, thier PR machine, and the support of their leadership. Implying that the playing field was at all fair ignores reality.
I do agree, though, that Biden’s many faults are his own. His most recent failure, support for ethnic cleansing and denial of aid to refugees, should have made him unelectable by the party that claims to be pro-human rights… but here we are, with him as the best of two terrible candidates.
It’s not disingenuous at all. If you don’t want Biden to run, work to primary him. That’s how it works. The fact that almost no candidates even tried to primary him shows that people like the person I responded to didn’t want to actually do the hard work it takes. They just waited until the inevitable and then complained. So I am going to point that out when they bitch about Biden like this. If they had at least tried, there was at least a chance Biden wouldn’t be the nominee. They didn’t try.
It shows nothing of the sort.
There was approximately a zero percent chance, statistically, that the superdelegates would vote for anyone beyond Biden. There was nearly no chance that a challenger would have been received with anything but contempt. This “logic” is the same logic both Reps and Dems use to gaslight third party challengers, too. “If you try real hard you can overcome our utter control of the debates and privileged position to win! We promise!”
Alternately, there WAS a choice and the vast majority of Democrats are okay with a candidate who is 100% okay cutting off aid to the victims of ethnic cleansing. I prefer to hope that that isn’t the case.
There was nearly no chance that a challenger would have been received with anything but contempt
And that’s why President Hillary Clinton won her 2008 primary
To be fair, anyone that wants to run in a primary against the incumbent is already going to receive less due to the “never run against them” unwritten rule. We’ve been primed to see it as a failing strategy, and anyone that tries gets shouted down because “now is not the time.”
I’ll readily admit that some great things have been done this presidency, and Biden needs to be more vocal about that. However, his age being part of the conversation means that they’re too afraid to actually have him talk about it (it seems like).
I dunno. I haven’t felt less excited to vote in my life, and that’s due to the pressure all around.
“Vote or it’s fascism” is a great motivator to get out, but when it turns into a yearly thing it no longer it no longer feels like duty.
And yes, voting to stop fascism is a good thing. What I’m getting at is that apathy is going to win until we get someone that we can actually be excited for. Another Neo-liberal win isn’t the victory that gives me high hopes for the future.
“It’s not possible to primary Biden. Why can’t we have a candidate other than Biden?!?!”
Easy thing to say instead of actually working to put a candidate in office.
I…are you being intentionally obtuse here? My point is that “putting in the work” quickly is overshadowed by the DNC having the largest megaphone available.
And a lot of us are working to just live. “Putting in the work” means either taking away what little time you have to decompress, or not working and instead stomping for that ideal candidate, by taking leave from work.
And aside from that, I was pointing out the “why” of it. Stop being abrasive and actually come into a topic willing to listen and talk.
My point was that not even trying to put in the work and then complaining that you didn’t get your way is silly.
You assume that we knew we needed to try and prepare someone else.
A lot of us don’t like him purely because of how he handled the Israel thing
You knew how old he was. That’s not a secret.
It’s not the fault of the electorate that the democratic party has lost touch with its base.
Part of me just wants trump to win just so the groups looking to ‘punish’ Biden for not doing their will will have a blast under another 4 years of trump. You vote with your head for the good of the country as a whole, not with your emotions for the whims of your clan.
Personally, I think the potential of schadenfreude is not a good reason to want Trump to win the election.
But then I don’t want my queer daughter sent to a “conversion therapy” camp.
If Democrats care about your daughter, they would have run a better candidate.
As you acknowledge, the stakes are incredibly high, so why would we run the only person polling poorly against Donald Trump? I hate to tell you, but they don’t give a damn about your daughter.
Oh, okay, I guess I should be fine when Trump’s goons march her into a camp then because the Democrats didn’t run a better candidate. My mistake.
Right, direct that anger towards the real problem here. The Democratic Party, who sat by while it happens.
No I’m pretty sure I’m going to blame the fascist for being a fascist
Its in their nature. We cant throw our hands up and let them get away with it. I blame the adults in the room for letting the child run rough shod
So I shouldn’t be angry at Trump and his people for doing it?
Is this like being angry at Chamberlain for allowing Hitler to start WWII and ignoring the fact that Hitler started WWII.
There is absolutely a historical case to be made that appeasement was a fatal error leading to the rise of Nazi Germany.
We cant blame snakes for being snakes. What we need is some snake wranglers. We’ve had 4 years to prevent Trump and did nothing.
We get what we deserve
We’ve been given the choice between an insane fascist and an ethnic cleansing apologist. That the second is the “good” option is utterly shameful.
Don’t get started on the climate. No matter who wins the US will break its own oil production record.
So…
In your mind, the people screaming their voices raw that Biden is an unpopular candidate, and could lose like Hillary did in 2016…
If they’re right, and Biden does lose, you’re going to blame them for trying to warn everyone before it was too late to change candidates?
That’s the same logic that got medicine women burned as witches when they said somone won’t survive an illness.
Like, I see that shit all the time here, it never makes any sense, and when I try to get someone to explain why they think that, I usually just get some weird insult or no reply at all.
When covid broke out, were you also yelling at scientists to shut up because as long as you weren’t aware of the danger you thought it couldn’t hurt you?
If they’re right, and Biden does lose, you’re going to blame them for trying to warn everyone before it was too late to change candidates?
Democrats would rather lose and have someone to blame than move to the left.
If they lose to a Republican, they’re back in power in 4-8 years.
If they lose to a FDR style Dem, then they may never get power of the party back.
That’s why the DNC fights progressives harder than republicans.
Meanwhile progressives are trying to stop fascism and our own side keeps tripping us and then lecturing us while the fascists keep on marching.
Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
