It’s not alarmist: A second Trump term really is an extinction-level threat to democracy
www.vox.com
Why a second Trump term is a mortal threat to democracy — though perhaps not the way you think.
  • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
    199·
    2 months ago

    It’s not so alarming what will happen if Trump gets elected

    What’s more alarming for me is how dumb America could be that they are even considering electing someone like him … or to even have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

    This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
      1107·
      2 months ago

      To be fair, a lot of people believe that choosing neither somehow would absolve them of any guilt should fascism win.

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
        541·
        2 months ago

        This is what I mean … the choice is either an average politician or an old wing nut orange man … but the choices are so difficult for Americans to decide that many choose neither and never think that they are instead paving the way for the wannabe fascist.

        I can’t believe that the fate of the world hinges on the deranged decisions of a completely confused people. As much as I don’t want to admit that America has so much influence, they do have literal control over much of the world and they do have the largest most powerful military at the moment. So whoever gets to be leader will set the stage for the stability or instability of the world in the next few years. And it’s all riding on ill informed choices of a very ill informed population.

        • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
          33·
          2 months ago

          It’s absurd how much power the executive has. The president shouldn’t matter that much. They are responsible for implementing laws that are written and passed by congress. That’s pretty much it. Maybe appoint a SCOTUS judge or two. And a bunch of lower court judges. Pending senate approval, of course.

          Instead they are now nearly unilaterally in charge of the strongest military and largest economy the world has ever seen. Or at least they will, if Project 2025 or Agenda 47 is to be followed.

      • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.worldEnglish
        31·
        2 months ago

        don’t forget the christian second coming accelerationist folk who just want to see it all burn because they’re embarrassed they’ve fucked up too many predictions.

      • Psaldorn@lemmy.world
        112·
        2 months ago

        They wish to literally embody the “all it takes for evil to prosper…” axiom

      • index@sh.itjust.works
        639·
        2 months ago

        Directly supporting and advocating for fascists and genocide supporters is much worst than not choosing to participate in a staged election that for a century has granted power to the same two parties

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          251·
          2 months ago

          Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

          You have a chance to do something (however small) to prevent that.

          • index@sh.itjust.works
            321·
            2 months ago

            Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

            How do you think people with relatives in the middle east feel right now?

    • cmoney@lemmy.world
      20·
      2 months ago

      One party in particular has gone to great lengths to wreck the education system, looks like we are starting to see the results of those efforts.

    • lectricleopard@lemmy.world
      162·
      2 months ago

      The culture of America is rooted in bigoted populism. You know what the big political issue of the 1850s was? 1870’s? 1920’s? 1960’s?

      It’s the aftermath of the 60s that kept the creeps quiet for awhile, but we’re regressing to the mean now. This is the real America for better or worse. Always has been.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
      92·
      2 months ago

      This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

      It’s not.

      Most voters aren’t “stupid,” they just live in completely different information universes.

      This has always been the case in America, but I feel like it’s never been so severe, with people basically having their minds sucked into phones by design.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
        15·
        2 months ago

        My parents have been brainwashed into not believing any news that shows Trump in a bad light. When I show them video of one of his rants, or his dancing, or him giving a microphone a happy ending, they think I’m gullible and am falling for doctored video.

        When people have been trained not to trust legitimate news sources, it’s really, really hard to convince them to come back to reality because, in their eyes, we’re the brainwashed ones.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
          7·
          2 months ago

          Yep.

          I feel like information hygiene should be a mandatory part of school curriculum now. Like not just a small part, but hammered in.

          It’s too late for our parents I guess, unless either party feels like regulating big tech…

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
          5·
          2 months ago

          Though as an addendum, my mom grew up Republican, but doesn’t know how to use Facebook or anything, and she hates Donald Trump with a burning passion. Its kind of hilarious. She would literally, actually vote for Hitler over him, as his personality is so fundamentally incompatible with her, lol.

          I mention that, as it feels like a test case for someone that hasn’t been conditioned to view him as a superhero or whatever.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
        12·
        2 months ago

        Disagree. Americans are too comfortable to do much of anything for themselves. The rise of centrism is basically being OK with whatever, and calling that clever.

    • index@sh.itjust.works
      737·
      2 months ago

      have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

      The “average politician” is backing a genocide and israel fascist government, among other evil regimes around the world like saudi arabia or emirates.

      If you consider either a fascist or a genocide supporter a sane option you are doing something much worst than failing an intelligence test, you are evil and in bad faith.

  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
    75·
    2 months ago

    Erdogan once said “democracy is a bus we ride until we reach our destination”. I feel major similar vibes from the GOP.

  • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
    64·
    2 months ago

    I don’t know exactly how bad a second Trump term would be, but I’d really rather not find out. At best it will be embarrassing and absurd, at worst it would be devastating and catastrophic for countless millions, both inside and outside the US.

  • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
    431·
    2 months ago

    If American democracy elects Trump, then your version of it has already failed.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      12·
      2 months ago

      The fact he’s a consideration for the presidency again means we’re already broken beyond repair, he’d just be the tombstone.

      We’ll have fascists shoot Americans in the street and fully protected by the law (and not just the cops who do it) before we ever have a candidate who can give us Universal Healthcare and a better minimum wage.

      A wake up call to fix the Democracy was in 2000, and we did nothing. We all ignored our complaints when 9/11 happened, and then did nothing when Trump won in 2016.

      • 4grams@awful.systemsEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        It’s easy to keep rewinding until you find the one place we went wrong. Turnips first election, what we let bush get away with, Clinton’s turn of the party, electing Reagan, Nixon…. There always the one thing, there’s always the one weird trick.

        We have a broken garbage system that has failed. We’re in for some shit.

  • StopObscurantism@lemmy.ca
    475·
    2 months ago

    A second Trump term really is an extinction-level threat to democracy worldwide, not just in United States. Considering that Trump and his supporters promise an isolationist policy, all sorts of predatory authoritarian and totalitarian regimes will suddenly feel like they can do anything - and this will start happening all over the world.

  • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.worldEnglish
    433·
    2 months ago

    Chomsky was right when he properly pointed out that Republicans are the biggest threat to the world.

    Donnie is merely a symptom. No Republicans ever should be allowed to hold any office.

    • NostraDavid@programming.dev
      2·
      2 months ago

      I would argue that the Republicans are a symptom as well, the whole USA democratic structure will only enable a 2-party system. The whole systemic structure is rotten.

  • tehn00bi@lemmy.world
    333·
    2 months ago

    I think he’s a symptom of a much larger disease. The people behind him, the evangelicals, non college educated whites, the climate change deniers, the industrialists who fight every regulation, the behind closed doors racists. These are the democracy extinction harbingers.

    • Random Dent@lemmy.mlEnglish
      1·
      2 months ago

      I’ve been saying for a while, George W. Bush is the one who took the door off its hinges and sold it, Trump is just the inevitable crackhead who walked in and started living in the kitchen.

    • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
      647·
      2 months ago

      Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO. Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine. Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream. Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us. Yeah great current administration!

      • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
        121·
        2 months ago

        Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        I thought republicans didn’t even like NATO, what’s the butthurt about this?

        Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine.

        We had to choose that long before this administration. The primary source of inflation is corporate greed and the top 0.1% demanding more from the rest of us, while paying less themselves, a position they only get away with because of conservatives.

        Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream.

        Because there are no penalties or dis-incentives for corporations not to buy up all the land and houses. Every time we try to impose such rules, it gets shot down by republicans.

        Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us.

        Border. Also, the implied violence and expulsion against undocumented workers is what enables employers to pay them such a cheap wage and enforce abysmal working conditions on them. The correct solution is to provide an easy path for work visas, and heavily penalize companies for hiring undocumented workers. You’ll never guess who is against doing that though…

        Your comment is peak “stick in bicycle” meme.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          210·
          2 months ago

          Im not a republican!

          Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

          Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

          They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man. No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

          You voting for this current mess is the bicycle meme lol

          • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            Im not a republican!

            Press ‘X’ to doubt.

            Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

            Which grocery company does Biden run where he can decide to reduce the prices?

            Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

            As someone who had to look for housing 3 times during Trump’s administration: no, it wasn’t affordable.

            They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man.

            Who is “They”?

            No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

            No shit. Is that why you are voting for the orange fascist?

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              27·
              2 months ago

              Then dont assume right and whats the point of assuming? I correct you and you still doubt it lol ok I see why you want to vote for “Them”.

              Which grocery store does trump own cause he had way better prices.

              But you found a home now its unaffordable 80% increase in the last 4 years. Thanks Biden you the best!

              They are them!

              Im voting for my interest not against it!

              • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                31·
                2 months ago

                Who is “They” again?

                Grocery prices were “good” during the end of the trump admin because grocery purchases were waaaay down during the global pandemic. Are you saying you’d prefer a global pandemic to paying hiked up prices for eggs?

                I actually bought my first home this year, whaddya know.

          • tehn00bi@lemmy.world
            1·
            2 months ago

            Thank your buddy Putin for throwing the wheat prices off all over the globe. It’s not just the US that has felt inflation. But your head is so far up your ass you can’t recognize that.

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
        133·
        2 months ago

        sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        This misconception needs to be corrected.

        The tax dollars go to America’s milliary industrial complex. It’s their surplus (which is already budgeted and paid for by the American government) that is sent overseas. No tax dollars leave the USA.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          214·
          2 months ago

          Forgot money grows on trees! Its still spending our tax dollars thats what I said. I got a crazy idea how about putting that into education or infrastructure. The american people are getting taken advantage any way you try and paint it. Israel has free healthcare and education and they are not part of NATO. They can fund their own genocide!

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
            7·
            2 months ago

            I don’t disagree, but the Military Industrial Complex is enabled and funded by both the Republicans and the Democrats. Nothing will stop your tax dollars flowing to it.

      • auzy@lemmy.world
        81·
        2 months ago

        Medicine? You mean like those handled by Obamacare which Trump wants to get rid of? From my understanding that was a huge change (here in Australia we have Medicare which is life changing and similar)

        Also, if you’re getting replaced by people from another country (who have a huge disadvantage), I’d argue maybe you need to work on improving yourself.

        That being said, she’s also increasing the minimum wage and taxing the rich more (whilst reducing tax for middle class and poor). So even minimum wage people are hugely better off.

        Trumps bs has caused issues internationally, even here in Australia. I don’t think you realise how much he is fucking things up for normal people worldwide

          • auzy@lemmy.world
            11·
            2 months ago

            If Trump wins, I’d be happy to have political refugees from the US personally

            And it actually affects us too. All Trump’s shitty racism, bigotry, anti vaccine agenda is being reinforced worldwide because he’s an idiot. And he’s showing our absolutely crap political parties what they can get away with (and they’re using him as an example).

            For our military, don’t forget, he’s giving away confidential military secrets too (I have a friend in the military, and he is putting her at risk).

            This is bigger than the US. It doesn’t affect me as much, but i also have friends in the US

            Also I’m fairly sure I could get a job in the US and residency if i wanted

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          223·
          2 months ago

          Trump was already president and it was the best 4 years for Americans. Everything started to suck when Biden became president and Trump warned us that this would happen. Prices for everything inflated homes are only for huge corps to purchase yeah great great administration. They were better under trump and thats a fact. I’m not looking to make history with a women president I’m looking to make money for my future self and family.

          • the_brownie@lemm.eeEnglish
            6·
            2 months ago

            This take is so incredibly bad I’m almost thinking that you’re a troll. “Everything was good under Trump 😊” -> “Everything was bad under Biden 😡” therefore Trump good, Biden bad is probably the most juvenile and pathetic logical fallacy that persists in our shared political thought. I’m not sure if you remember, but there was a little thing called COVID that happened which shocked supply lines, trade, took a huge toll on our collective mental health, and created an economic crisis. Acting like Biden caused that is so ridiculous, I have a hard time believing that even you believe that.

            You could argue that Biden handled the recovery poorly (and I don’t think that’s a bad argument), but then you’d have to compare it with how Trump would have handled such a recovery – something we really don’t know. Given his contempt for the working class it is doubtful it would be any better, and there was plenty of room for it to be actively worse.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              18·
              2 months ago

              Im going by past experience and the Trump administration was better for the American people. Shit sucks right now and it will continue this way with the current administration.

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
            2·
            2 months ago

            The ‘everything started to suck’ came with COVID, not with a presidential administration. To the extent that inflation and everything ultimately got away from us, that started mostly under Trump’s watch, but even then I don’t think I can blame Trump for the bad economy stuff, except maybe the degree to which he escalated trade war with China, but Biden has been happy to continue it. I don’t see Trump or the GOP willing to go against those huge corps for the sake of the common man, generally I see quite the opposite.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              26·
              2 months ago

              We cant tell the future, Im going by the past and what I experienced during the Trump administration.

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
    291·
    2 months ago

    speaker of the house is a devoutly religious buffoon. and he absolutely loves the angry orange. keep that in your thoughts over the next week.

  • newenlightened@lemmy.world
    292·
    2 months ago

    it’s an extinction level event for a lot of things. we’re already out of time on so many important issues. every living creature on this earth should consider him a threat. we are in self defense mode, or at least we should be. sadly, most of you don’t seem to understand how dire the situation really is.

    but whatever. stick your head back in the sand i guess.

      • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
        81·
        2 months ago

        Well start by voting. Vote local, vote often and make your voice heard. Then maybe try to reduce your carbon footprint. You really need a cultural shift for this to be effective. Yes yes I know businesses are the major polluters so I revert back to sentence one, vote, and continue to try to shift the culture to a more renewable one

        • Anti-Face Weapon@lemmy.world
          92·
          2 months ago

          Ok, I vote in every single election, including every primary. I drive seldom, use public transportation often, eat meat only twice a week, and encourage other people to adopt socially and environmentally forward beliefs.

          Do you really think this is enough? I don’t, but there is only so much one person can do.

      • JesseoftheNorth@lemmy.world
        62·
        2 months ago

        Are you ready to take the fight to the streets? Because that’s likely what it’ll come down to. Voting won’t save you. The constitution is only a flimsy piece of paper. Start organizing now.

  • Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
    261·
    2 months ago

    For those who disagree, simply read about Spain, Italy, Germany, and Japan during the 1930’s. Furthermore, the Electoral College should be shut down.

    • Homescool@lemmy.world
      53·
      2 months ago

      I honestly don’t understand why we talk about eliminating the Electoral College when it literally requires some states to vote in favor of giving up their own power. In what economy of incentives is this even possible?

      • Irremarkable@fedia.io
        5·
        2 months ago

        The most likely path at this point is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, a collection of state legislative measures, state constitutional amendments, etc. aimed at using the electoral college against itself. The very short tldr is once >=270 electoral votes worth of states have passed something enacting it, all those states’ delegates will vote in line with the national popular vote regardless of how their individual state votes, forcing the popular vote winner to be president.

        Whether or not it’ll survive judicial challenge if/when it gets to >=270 electoral votes worth of states is entirely unclear. In theory, there’s nothing they should be able to do about it, but SCOTUS has shown time and time again it doesn’t actually give a fuck about the constitution.

        • Kethal@lemmy.world
          2·
          2 months ago

          Colle

          The problem isn’t that states have disproportionate power, and moreover the NPVC is a poor solution. The problem is that all but two states allocate their delegates in a winner-take-all manner, so that a candidate with only 51% of the vote gets all of the delegates.

          The NPVC requires huge buy in to work because in nearly half of cases it doesn’t result it a person’s voting power represening their actual vote. Thus, no individual citizen has incentive to support it. If it ever gets enough support to take effect, as soon as a state ends up with its delegates going to a candidate the citizens of that state didn’t vote for, they’ll repeal it and it will end nationally due to the wording of the law.

          The solution is for states to allocate delegates proportionally to the votes of its citizens. That’s what voting is all about. If that system were in place, then there would have been no elections with a mismatch between the college and popular vote. Every citizen has individual incentive for that system, more so than the current system or NPVC, and therefore you don’t need the group buy-in wording that the NPVC has. It can be achieved on a state-by-state basis, and it would only need a few states to operate this way to have an impact.

          Someone is going to point out that there are details and some states want to be fought over for their small percentage to swing the state, but the fact is that this solves the problem, and overwhelmingly this has fewer barriers and weakenesses than NPVC. If you care about this, contact your state government to change how delgates are allocated.

      • kerrigan778@lemmy.world
        4·
        2 months ago

        It doesn’t require the handful of swing states to be onboard. It just requires the heavy hitters which are largely marginalized by the electoral college and some of the smaller deep left or right states which are also made pretty irrelevant in terms of campaigning even if they get a bit more influence

      • Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 months ago

        The politics in Germany better remain under control. If the fucking AfD took power, all of our neighbors, with exception the fucking Austrians and Swiss, would invade our asses.

        • Strider@lemmy.world
          2·
          2 months ago

          And still even there you can see the right in rise of power. But yes. Germany is under scrutiny.

          I just posted that as popular last words before things go sideways with a hint of sarcasm.

  • TrumpIsNotARepublican@lemmy.world
    21·
    2 months ago

    I made these pictures because I don’t think that arguments like “Trump is a threat to democracy” are something his supporters agree with. Maybe people could share these things in groups they know in these last couple days before the election.

      • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
        3·
        2 months ago

        Really? Because I recall the first woman hung in Salem for witchcraft was hung because being unable to say the Lord’s prayer in english(she spoke gaelic) means you’re a witch.

        I wonder which one is canonically correct? Can the devil say bible words or not? Or is it specifically the lords prayer? Because if that’s it then we can prove we ARENT the devil.

        I hate religious rhetoric so much. My brain hurts now trying to make it make sense.

  • selokichtli@lemmy.ml
    191·
    2 months ago

    I’d argue here that right next to Trump, it is the electoral college. But, as Americans can’t do anything to change their electoral system, they are probably already owned. If it isn’t Trump, it will be another Trump-like candidate, whether Republican or Democrat.

  • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
    14·
    2 months ago

    The civil servant job thing is an insurance plan disguised as job security. It would enable Trump to fill the bureaucracy with loyal stooges who will keep doing his bidding during the next administration - like his House cronies did when he told them not to pass the bipartisan border security bill so he could use the border as his main campaign issue.

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
      4·
      2 months ago

      His appointees from the last go round are already still fucking things up. If you’ve tried to interact with the legal system or any regulatory agency, there basically is none. For everything from DHS to FOIA, the government is and has not functioning in many southern states.

    • FatCrab@lemmy.one
      8·
      2 months ago

      If he loses, I think we see the fractures in the republican party really start to cascade even more than they have since the last election. It’ll still be a stewpot of regressive, reactionary, fascist fellating bullshit, but their goose stepping will be out of sync.

      Meanwhile, a collapse of the Republican part opens the door for a likewise restructuring of the Democratic party, which has for decades now been a big tent party for people who aren’t braindead, but is otherwise pretty ideideologically disparate. And before you wah wah wah FPTP, keep in mind that all RCV initiatives in the US have arisen out of Democratic party affiliated groups.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        32·
        2 months ago

        That didn’t happen last time. Instead, everyone tried to become the new Trump and take up the mantle. They failed because the real Trump was still running, but without him they’ll be able to adapt.

        Although they’ll struggle to draw in voters the way Trump does. People like Trump because he’s an “outsider”. A new outsider can totally emerge to take up the mantle once Trump is not sucking all the oxygen out of the room.

        Or who knows. Maybe once Trump is defeated everything will go back to normal. 👍

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      31·
      2 months ago

      Oh here campaigning for Repubs all the way to the end, huh? “Both sides are colluding, Dems don’t reverse Repub policies! Therefore give up and allow as many Repub policies as we can.”

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        42·
        2 months ago

        How did you read any of that from my comment?

        I’m just pointing out that fascism doesn’t go away just because Trump is gone.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          I’ve seen a lot of comments about the Dems deliberately colluding with Repubs to continue deeper into fascism and assumed yours was one of those.